KKW Accountability

[miguksaram]

I wanted to break off a discussion that was on another thread and start its own thread as I felt it deserved it.

Personally, I have no problem with central authority. A central authority means that there are specific people accountable for bad decisions. It also has the potential to hold across the board quality to a uniform standard, something that makes a certification much more valueable.

A question popped into my head and before it died of loneliness I wanted to ask it here. If KKW is the centralized authority for TKD and if they are the ones that promote people to master and grandmaster status, should they be held responsible for the actions of those people they promote? If they find that a 4th dan is just giving out dan certs to unqualified people, should they reserve the right to revoke his/her authority?

 

[rmclain]

I wanted to break off a discussion that was on another thread and start its own thread as I felt it deserved it.



A question popped into my head and before it died of loneliness I wanted to ask it here. If KKW is the centralized authority for TKD and if they are the ones that promote people to master and grandmaster status, should they be held responsible for the actions of those people they promote? If they find that a 4th dan is just giving out dan certs to unqualified people, should they reserve the right to revoke his/her authority?

I'm not a TKD guy. But, I think any organization (in the martial arts world or another profession) that "certifies" a member of its organization, should hold that person accountable to some system of bylaws, code of ethics, or whatever. Many professions have this standard. If TKD is to receive any professional status, they need to have this as well.

R. McLain

 

[dancingalone]

If KKW is the centralized authority for TKD

But it's clearly not. That genie (djinn?) is out of the bottle no matter the wishes of some of us. And without a centralized authority there can hardly be any member accountability or censure that can be exercised like the American Bar Association does for US lawyers.

 

[terryl965]

Bottomline yes they should. Reality is they are in it for the money.

 

[miguksaram]

Bottomline yes they should. Reality is they are in it for the money.

Ok..so how can they police the efforts?

 

[Kwanjang]

Its not going to happen, only one true way to police! It is ultimatley is in the hands of the Senior Instuctor (the owner of a school) I wrote in another thread to The KKW was an effort to help unify and proliferate TKD
Plus, be the ultimate credentialing authorty for our art. OK so here is the deal- a change in "something"(I will use poomse as an example) occurs over in Korea, and unless you are connected with KKW at very high levels, it takes time for it to filter all over the world. Even then there wiil be discrepinsies in the "change" Heck, I've been around long enough know every taekwondo school ITF included thinks they are doing poomse the "right" way. The Senior instructors martial personality always bleeds through. For humility sake, I always spend the money to train with GM Hae Man Park, (He loves to teach Poomse!) when possible. He is one of the authors of the TG poomse. Here is a classic example of two people looking at the same thing and comming out with different perspectives on whats actually being taught. I also wrote on another thread a quote from The Karate Kid that I think is pertinent to the subject at large. Danielson, " But I do karate your way". Mr. Miagy. " Hi, One day you do own way." sorry if I drifted-just my two cents!

The more the KKW craps and falls back in it. The more I beleive in the Kwan system. (Like Stated earler) All the origional Kwans have thier unique
flair on TKD, despite the establishment of the KKW

I am not trying to ruffle any feathers and probably a topic for another thread. I do not like what the USAT has done with the "ART" Sorry for the rant!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

A question popped into my head and before it died of loneliness I wanted to ask it here. If KKW is the centralized authority for TKD and if they are the ones that promote people to master and grandmaster status, should they be held responsible for the actions of those people they promote? If they find that a 4th dan is just giving out dan certs to unqualified people, should they reserve the right to revoke his/her authority?

In short, yes. R.McLain hit the nail on the head as to why. The big question is as to how.

It has gotten so far out of control that I see no way to reign it in effectively without the KKW losing a great deal of membership; you can be stingy in handing things out and people will accept that. But if you're overly generous and try to take some of it back, people will be outraged.

Daniel

 

[bluekey88]

Like others have said, absolutely they sould. Can they? I dunno. If they can...will they? Probably not.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Miles]

But it's clearly not. That genie (djinn?) is out of the bottle no matter the wishes of some of us. And without a centralized authority there can hardly be any member accountability or censure that can be exercised like the American Bar Association does for US lawyers.

Sorry for the off-topic remark-each State/Commonwealth has its own Bar Association and Attorney Discipline branch. The American Bar Association is a fraternal organization with a political arm having no impact on any individual attorney's ability to practice law.

 

[Miles]

If KKW is the centralized authority for TKD and if they are the ones that promote people to master and grandmaster status, should they be held responsible for the actions of those people they promote? If they find that a 4th dan is just giving out dan certs to unqualified people, should they reserve the right to revoke his/her authority?

There have been instances of instructors losing their ability to recommend students for dan because of various issues. I believe there was a guy in Florida (in)famous for selling rank who lost his right to recommend.

 

[miguksaram]

There have been instances of instructors losing their ability to recommend students for dan because of various issues. I believe there was a guy in Florida (in)famous for selling rank who lost his right to recommend.

Yes, that person I know of for sure...I helped in that case.

 

[YoungMan]

They already do. Kukkiwon testing rules state that if an instructor is caught promoting people who are unqualified (which can be a blanket term), he/she loses the right to make further recommendations.
Keep in mind, any test run under KKW guidelines must have at least one judge who is authorized to oversee a test as determined by the KKW. In our case, that would be our Grandmaster. By signing off on testings and sending the applications to the Kukkiwon, they are essentially swearing that the testers are eligible to test. Now, if it comes out that someone was not eligible (too young, didn't wait long enough, judges weren't qualified etc.), the Kukkiwon can certainly revoke the tester's Dan award and strip the presiding judge of his authority to recommend.

 

[terryl965]

They already do. Kukkiwon testing rules state that if an instructor is caught promoting people who are unqualified (which can be a blanket term), he/she loses the right to make further recommendations.
Keep in mind, any test run under KKW guidelines must have at least one judge who is authorized to oversee a test as determined by the KKW. In our case, that would be our Grandmaster. By signing off on testings and sending the applications to the Kukkiwon, they are essentially swearing that the testers are eligible to test. Now, if it comes out that someone was not eligible (too young, didn't wait long enough, judges weren't qualified etc.), the Kukkiwon can certainly revoke the tester's Dan award and strip the presiding judge of his authority to recommend.

Yes but to my knowledge this has never happened.

 

[YoungMan]

Do you know that for sure? Many of these things happen without our being aware of them. Just because Taekwondo Times doesn't publish it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[terryl965]

Do you know that for sure? Many of these things happen without our being aware of them. Just because Taekwondo Times doesn't publish it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Like I said to my knowledge it has never happened, and also all my GM that I know have said they have never heard of them taken away what was given. We never know any absolute with the KKW so it is just my opinion which means very little to some and alot to others.