kicks that can kill an opponent

[Last Fearner]

take my word for it, its easier to brake all the other bones then the femur.
Take out a knee is just as effective and efficent at stoping some one in any situation.

Got a news flash for ya. I've been studying the Martial Art for 42 years, and teaching for nearly 30. I already know that the femur is the largest and most difficult bone to break, and that breaking a knee, elbow, rib, tibia, fibula, radius, ulna or even humerus would be easier, so you're not telling me anything new.

However, since the discussion wasn't about picking easier targets, nor what I would choose to do to be more effective in stopping someone in the street (but thanks for the advice! :ultracool), I was addressing the question about the likelihood that the femur could be broken with a kick - - and yes, it can be done with relative accuracy and consistency if you know how, and have the power in your kick.

If anyone wants to see the number of discussions about broken femurs, just do an internet search (Google other search engine) with the key words "broken femur." You will find incidents from sports, roller blading, skate-boarding, bicycle and motorcycle accidents, and on and on. The femur does get broken quite often, and a powerful kick directed through the center will snap it just the same.

You know, you can tear down a ten story building by hand, or demolish it with cranes and a wrecking ball, but if you've got the explosives, and you know where to place the charges, you can bring it down much quicker and easier with one huge blast! I don't mind delivering a little extra power to a femur rather than popping the knee joint - - makes no difference to me.

 

[Doc_Jude]

... & humility is still as abundant as ever in the martial arts community

However, since the discussion wasn't about picking easier targets...

Actually, the discussion is titled "Kicks that can Kill an Opponent". Why don't we move the bone-breaking kick discussion, since any broken bone below the waist will most likely NOT produce a timely death.

 

[thetruth]

Well, truth, you might not "think" anyone has such control, but the truth is that many of us do.


Allow me to introduce myself..... I am Chief Master D. J. Eisenhart. :mst:

If you would prefer to meet in person, call my school for an appointment.


That is the general idea, Doc. First you learn the power of a kick to break smaller bones, then work your way up to being able to break larger bones. Once you have attained the ability to do certain kicks correctly, there is not any bone, in any human body - - no matter what the condition of the bone or the surrounding muscle, that can not be broken. Excessive fat on a morbidly obese person might make access to some bones difficult, but alternate bones and joints would then be targeted.

The femur is not as difficult to break with a kick as some non-kickers might think. From a medical standpoint, all one needs to do is consult medical journals and records to see how many femurs have been broken over the years in accidents (automobile, mountain climbing, sports: football, soccer, etc.). Don't think for a moment that I can not generate sufficient power to destroy a femur, nor that it would be too difficult to target and break instead of popping the hip or knee (either of which might occur as well). This is exactly what we train to do in Taekwondo, and many of us are quite capable of doing it very well.

I think we're a little far apart for me to be popping in to your school. If you say you can do these things then good for you. I have trained with some very capable instructors and am yet to find one who would suggest attacking the femur assuming it would break (knees yes, even shins but not thighs). I'm happy to believe you as it makes zero difference to me whether you can or cannot do it

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[FieldDiscipline]

... & humility is still as abundant as ever in the martial arts community



Actually, the discussion is titled "Kicks that can Kill an Opponent". Why don't we move the bone-breaking kick discussion, since any broken bone below the waist will most likely NOT produce a timely death.

Actually, I'm with LF here.

I also think that a broken femur has got a shot at killing your opponent.

 

[theletch1]

... & humility is still as abundant as ever in the martial arts community



Actually, the discussion is titled "Kicks that can Kill an Opponent". Why don't we move the bone-breaking kick discussion, since any broken bone below the waist will most likely NOT produce a timely death.

It is, indeed, kicks that can kill an opponent. I think the OP was, well, I don't really know what he was thinking but it certainly wasn't just which bones are easier to break. So, anyone have a kick in mind that can really kill or do we continue this circular discussion for another 10 or so pages?

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Any kick will kill you. If done by the right person, at the right target with the right power and tool.

Letch, there you go.

 

[Tez3]

Regardless of the details of the break, Tez, I cringe everytime I see that video.

As I said you should have heard it! Serious accidents are very rare in MMA thankfully.

A kick to injure a chap is Kingeri!

 

[exile]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please folks, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Bob Levine
-MT Moderator-

 

[Doc_Jude]

Actually, I'm with LF here.

I also think that a broken femur has got a shot at killing your opponent.

Okay. Please explain for us how breaking someone's femur would cause death during a hand to hand conflict. Because that's what we're talking about, not some lucky chance bone fragment maybe nicking the femoral artery or something like that.

 

[Last Fearner]

... & humility is still as abundant as ever in the martial arts community

Apparently, so is disrespect toward instructors. This is an open conversation to extract information, knowledge and share experience. I save humility for street conversations, but here I think we can dispense with such notions. I am not stating what I can do for bragging purposes, but I believe there are many others who can do it as well. I'm simply answering question that was raised about the subject of breaking femurs, and using my own personal training and experience to back up what I say.

Actually, the discussion is titled "Kicks that can Kill an Opponent". Why don't we move the bone-breaking kick discussion, since any broken bone below the waist will most likely NOT produce a timely death.

Well, Doc, we could do that, but I have made it clear that the OP was an unreasonable request of deadly information in my opinion, and others have questioned the Original Poster's motives who does not even seem to be participating in the thread any more. Thus, I would hope we have moved on from that. Considering the many other people here (yourself included) who have debated the issue of the femur, a video about a lower leg break in competion, and "prostrate assailants," I take your sudden desire to drop the issue with a grain of salt.

Since someone else brought up the allegation that a person could die from bleeding due to the severe nature of the wound created by breaking the femur (the OP did not specify how long for a person to die from the kick), I believe discussing the possibility or feasibility of making a particular kick, or damaging wound work, is well within the framework of the OP. One could continue to discuss that it might not be a 'one-shot' kick that kills an opponent, but rather a series of techniques to set up the kill, thus discussing which kicks could lead into a fatal attack (such as a femur break) is part of this discussion.

 

[Doc_Jude]

Apparently, so is disrespect toward instructors. This is an open conversation to extract information, knowledge and share experience. I save humility for street conversations, but here I think we can dispense with such notions. I am not stating what I can do for bragging purposes, but I believe there are many others who can do it as well. I'm simply answering question that was raised about the subject of breaking femurs, and using my own personal training and experience to back up what I say.

How many femurs have you broken?

Well, Doc, we could do that, but I have made it clear that the OP was an unreasonable request of deadly information in my opinion, and others have questioned the Original Poster's motives who does not even seem to be participating in the thread any more. Thus, I would hope we have moved on from that. Considering the many other people here (yourself included) who have debated the issue of the femur, a video about a lower leg break in competion, and "prostrate assailants," I take your sudden desire to drop the issue with a grain of salt.

Since someone else brought up the allegation that a person could die from bleeding due to the severe nature of the wound created by breaking the femur (the OP did not specify how long for a person to die from the kick), I believe discussing the possibility or feasibility of making a particular kick, or damaging wound work, is well within the framework of the OP. One could continue to discuss that it might not be a 'one-shot' kick that kills an opponent, but rather a series of techniques to set up the kill, thus discussing which kicks could lead into a fatal attack (such as a femur break) is part of this discussion.

Do you have any data on femur fractures (compound or otherwise) leading to fatalities? I'd love to see it.

 

[chinto]

Got a news flash for ya. I've been studying the Martial Art for 42 years, and teaching for nearly 30. I already know that the femur is the largest and most difficult bone to break, and that breaking a knee, elbow, rib, tibia, fibula, radius, ulna or even humerus would be easier, so you're not telling me anything new.

However, since the discussion wasn't about picking easier targets, nor what I would choose to do to be more effective in stopping someone in the street (but thanks for the advice! :ultracool), I was addressing the question about the likelihood that the femur could be broken with a kick - - and yes, it can be done with relative accuracy and consistency if you know how, and have the power in your kick.

If anyone wants to see the number of discussions about broken femurs, just do an internet search (Google other search engine) with the key words "broken femur." You will find incidents from sports, roller blading, skate-boarding, bicycle and motorcycle accidents, and on and on. The femur does get broken quite often, and a powerful kick directed through the center will snap it just the same.

You know, you can tear down a ten story building by hand, or demolish it with cranes and a wrecking ball, but if you've got the explosives, and you know where to place the charges, you can bring it down much quicker and easier with one huge blast! I don't mind delivering a little extra power to a femur rather than popping the knee joint - - makes no difference to me.

ehh yes and no, as if they are runners and or say horse back riders the femer is harder to brake then say an office worker. but I do understand what you are saying.
My Point was that a femur was not a good choice if its for keeps. the K.I.S.S. princile is a thing that favors survival. IE as in what will work just about no matter what.

But I understand what you are saying, as a Broken Femur is a Life Threatening situation if not treated properly.

 

[chinto]

Actually, I'm with LF here.

I also think that a broken femur has got a shot at killing your opponent.

YES a broken femur is a life threatening situation as it can lacerate the femural artery.... that and shock can kill. but there are a lot of other things that could be kicked or punched that would be a more sure taget.

 

[chinto]

How many femurs have you broken?



Do you have any data on femur fractures (compound or otherwise) leading to fatalities? I'd love to see it.

any laceration of the femural artery is life theatening... that is why EMT's and other medical professionals treat it as a major injury.

personaly I would not pick the femur for targeting for a brake... it is the hardest bone in the body to brake. there are a lot of more vulnerably and efficent targets to pick for attack.

 

[Doc_Jude]

any laceration of the femural artery is life theatening... that is why EMT's and other medical professionals treat it as a major injury.

personaly I would not pick the femur for targeting for a brake... it is the hardest bone in the body to brake. there are a lot of more vulnerably and efficent targets to pick for attack.

No, the temporal is hardest to break. It protects the inner ear.

I'm familiar with the effects of femur fractures. What I am questioning is the practice of martial artists targeting the femur in order to effect a fracture or fatality.

 

[Tez3]

It is not the bleeding as such that will kill you ( though of course it can) it is the blood clot that can travel to the lungs or heart. Plus any bone that penetrates the skin is very dangerous.

I agree with LF, this discussion has taken a strange turn. I do regret mentioning the video now, I was there at ringside, I was there afterwards, I know what happened so don't appreciate people telling me I was wrong! And can I ask if 'brake' is an alternative spelling to 'break'?

I would suggest the OP could well have been a trolling attempt and they are laughing their socks off at the moment.

 

[Zero]

Last Fearner/Chief Master...? or whatever
Apparently, so is disrespect toward instructors

- an instructor merits no further respect that anyone else, by default; they need to earn that either by their skill at imparting knowledge or their own fight record and/or ability.

Got a news flash for ya. I've been studying the Martial Art for 42 years, and teaching for nearly 30. I already know that the femur is the largest and most difficult bone to break, and that breaking a knee, elbow, rib, tibia, fibula, radius, ulna or even humerus would be easier, so you're not telling me anything new.

However, since the discussion wasn't about picking easier targets, nor what I would choose to do to be more effective in stopping someone in the street (but thanks for the advice! ), I was addressing the question about the likelihood that the femur could be broken with a kick - - and yes, it can be done with relative accuracy and consistency if you know how, and have the power in your kick.

"With consistency"?? Aside from your years of training and instructing how much fight experience do you have - particularly full contact such as K1 or mma type experience? How many femurs or other bones have you broken when fighting a resisting and able opponent by way of kicks?
Anything is possible (almost) in a fight, that goes without saying but I have not met tha man yet - and I have trained and fought some of the strongest and hardest fighters there are on a national and international level - who can consitently break a femur or bone of this type in competition or combat.

I can break a femur if you want to keep your leg in place when I do a downward stomp or axe-kick but aside froom freakish one-off femur breaks from muay-thai leg attacks etc good luck in a fight repeating this.

Which makes me think, despite your years devoted to the arts, that you're talking theoretical - please disuade me - but unless you've got some stats/experience to back these comments up they aren't worth much at all and are little use to anyone.

 

[exile]

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[FieldDiscipline]

any laceration of the femural artery is life theatening... that is why EMT's and other medical professionals treat it as a major injury.

I'm familiar with the effects of femur fractures. What I am questioning is the practice of martial artists targeting the femur in order to effect a fracture or fatality.

A contradiction?

 

[Sukerkin]

Chaps, I think I'm failing to see what it is that has sparked your furore here. Maybe I need to read the thread from the beginning .

Let's rephrase the apparent bone of contention (Yeah! Anatomy pun attack !) and see if peoples thirst for argument wanes somewhat.

I'm assuming that all who have made posts here are martial artists of considerable experience {tho' perhaps not many as long served as LF :sensei rei:}?

Taking that as a given, do any of us trully hold the conviction that you could not break such a bone if the circumstances presented themselves?

Granted, when I had to fight in a life threatening situation I went for the much easier knee instead but I wouldn't categorically state that I couldn't have broken the thigh bone if that was the target I had. I'd say that my chances would be much lower but I wouldn't put money on not being able to.

As Exile has strongly pointed out twice now, when debate of a technical point becomes an unseemly squabble then it is time to draw a breath and broaden focus again to recapture what the core of the discussion is attempting to achieve.

After all as the thread gets locked (and I guarantee it will if it continues the way it has) then no conclusion is reached and feathers remain ruffled needlessly.