Kickboxing vs Taekwondo

[Tez3]

5. My kickboxing gym spars until someone is knocked out,

Are you in the UK now or still in Germany because I know of no reputable kick boxing ( or anything else) here that would allow sparring until someone is KO'd.

 

[JohnnyEnglish]

Are you in the UK now or still in Germany because I know of no reputable kick boxing ( or anything else) here that would allow sparring until someone is KO'd.

Now I am in the UK. I did kickboxing back in Germany.

I've seen many martial art classes in the UK, and I must say, that most of them do not even offer full-contact. I miss full contact.

 

[JohnnyEnglish]

not really,

WAKO has a Muay Thai division I believe.

Even then, wako is the organization that hosts events not the type of kickboxing itself

Jup, but you see that it offers Kickboxing as an own sport.

I don't really know what you want me to say ? I can only tell you how it is ruled in my country, and when I am telling you that we have KICKBOXING as an own sport, long ago called SPORT-KARATE. Which is literally using Karate kicks and boxing punches, then this is what it is. There are no elbows and no knees involved... It's KICK-Boxing.

You can PM me and I give you the website of my old-kickboxing club, if you want you can ask them yourself.

lololol, what a meaningless discussion. There are different terms used in different countries. In English for example, the word MARTIAL ARTS is used for Boxing,Karate,Wrestling. In German we have two words " Kampfsport " and " Kampfkunst ", Kampfsport - Boxing,Wrestling,Kickboxing (- literally everything competitive, this is why we have SPORT in the name) and " Kampfkunst " which is literally stuff like Wing-Tsun,Krav-Maga,Pencak-Silat,Traditional Muay-Thai ( not thai-boxing ),Karate. So as you can see, we have an own word for more self-defence and traditional oriented martial arts and one for sport-oriented martial arts. In English you just call it self-defense, which would again kind of be too common in German language, since we are also able to defend ourself with Boxing, we would also call Boxing a self-defense in some cases.

This is what I think the issue is, a communication problem. We have an own martial art called KICKBOXEN, which does NOT include Muay-Thai, which does not include SAVATE, yes it might has some techniques that look like from savate or muay-thai, but this is probably because humans always had only two legs and two arms ! The Kickboxen we have in Germany, is also the daughter of the so called Sport-Karate we had, mostly spread in big cities, people who practiced Karate but wanted to have bloody fights, so they stepped in to a match and just kicked and punched the **** out of each other. Today we call it Kickboxen.

Conclusion: What I practised back then, was Kickboxing, or if you feel better, the German version of Kickboxing.


No need to get any further in to this discussion, since I made clear enough what I meant by Kickboxing. The topic is about something else.

 

[jks9199]

I know that there are different SORTS, also called Rules Kickboxing fights are followed by. Our Kickboxing club tought us K1 and sometimes not. I've never competed in Kickboxing, so I don't know much about the match-rules.

FACT: Kickboxing is Kickboxing ! Kickboxing is not muay-thai, Kickboxing is not savate, Kickboxing is not taekwondo, Kickboxing is Kickboxing. And yes, there are different rules, same as there is ITF and WTF Taekwondo. Still, both is Taekwondo.

No, that's not a fact. "Kickboxing" is a sport reflecting and influenced by several other combative sports, including muay-thai AKA Thai boxing, lethwei AKA Burmese boxing, full contact karate, boxing, and others. There are different rules depending on the association sanctioning the event, insurance requirements, state regs, and more.

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[JohnnyEnglish]

No, that's not a fact. "Kickboxing" is a sport reflecting and influenced by several other combative sports, including muay-thai AKA Thai boxing, lethwei AKA Burmese boxing, full contact karate, boxing, and others. There are different rules depending on the association sanctioning the event, insurance requirements, state regs, and more.

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Correct, there are different rules. But Kickboxing itself is still kickboxing. Somebody claimed Kickboxing IS muay-thai,which is utter BS. Kickboxing is Kickboxing. Just because you have eggs in your apple-pie, doesn't mean that you are eating eggs, you are still eating an apple pie.

 

[jks9199]

Correct, there are different rules. But Kickboxing itself is still kickboxing. Somebody claimed Kickboxing IS muay-thai,which is utter BS. Kickboxing is Kickboxing. Just because you have eggs in your apple-pie, doesn't mean that you are eating eggs, you are still eating an apple pie.

Perhaps your point would be better made by acknowledging that muay-thai, lethwei, savate, etc. are all specific e,ample within the larger class of kickboxing -- but that's not what you have written to date.

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[JohnnyEnglish]

Perhaps your point would be better made by acknowledging that muay-thai, lethwei, savate, etc. are all specific e,ample within the larger class of kickboxing -- but that's not what you have written to date.

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Can you please write something about the topic ? Not about something totally off-topic. If you don't know what KICKBOXING is, please google for it.

I am not here to teach Kickboxing, I am here to ask what would be more of a benefit in a SD situation, the more competitive Kickboxing, or the a bit more traditional Taekwondo.

Let me google that for you

Kickboxing - Google Search

 

[Tez3]

I've seen many martial art classes in the UK, and I must say, that most of them do not even offer full-contact. I miss full contact.

Tell me where you are and I will tell you where the nearest place that does full contact is, there's plenty around. They won't even mention the war.

 

[Danny T]

There are different terms used in different countries. In English for example, the word MARTIAL ARTS is used for Boxing,Karate,Wrestling. In German we have two words " Kampfsport " and " Kampfkunst ", Kampfsport - Boxing,Wrestling,Kickboxing (- literally everything competitive, this is why we have SPORT in the name) and " Kampfkunst " which is literally stuff like Wing-Tsun,Krav-Maga,Pencak-Silat,Traditional Muay-Thai ( not thai-boxing ),Karate.

Muay refers to Boxing in the Thai language. Muay Thai means Thai Boxing. So Traditional Muay Thai is Thai boxing.

 

[jks9199]

You walk down the street and a group of 3 people is pushing you around and is invading your personal space and so on forceing you in to a fight.

But, you see, you've already missed a huge part of self defense by that point. How do dinner you end up in a neighborhood where this would happen? Why did you person going towards the group? What warnings did you ignore, what signals did you send to precipitate such an attack? Neither TKD nor kickboxing is particularly suited to protecting you from a mob assault without an unusual focus in the training.

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[JohnnyEnglish]

Muay refers to Boxing in the Thai language. Muay Thai means Thai Boxing. So Traditional Muay Thai is Thai boxing.

Maybe, but again. Not in my country.

We have a difference between so called " Thaiboxing-schools " and " Muay-Thai schools ". Thaiboxing is oriented on competitions, the sport aspect, and MUAY THAI is totally concentrated on self-defense.

So you see, there are national differences again.

@jks9199: I am not here to discuss the psychological aspect of self-defense, and how to avoid it. I know very well how to avoid such situations, but I also know that there are situations your are not able to avoid. Let's take the example, you are walking home from training, at night. And 3-4 drugged maybe drunken strangers sourround you and start kicking you and trying to make you fight. How do you avoid it ?

A) Going to the ground and start crying like a baby, with the hope they let go of you.

B) Scream out loud for HELP with the hope they are going to run away.

C) Knocking one or two of them out to get your way out of there and run away

D) Performing some sort of hollywood high-kick to scare the **** out of them, but risk them to beat you up even more.


There are some options, but the fact that there is not much time to think and you have ro react straight away, to use the blitz-moment for your benefit, does not leave you many options again.

I personally would probably pick C, since this sounds like the most safe and effective way of getting out of there.

SURE, if I would see a group of suspicious looking people before, I would change the street-side to avoid any trouble. On the other hand, what is if you are crossing a peasant-tunnel-way ? And there is no way ? Walking straight back will get the attention of the possible attacker and will definitely bring you in to trouble, walking straight in to them can also bring you in to trouble. So there is literally no way out. Or what is if you are not alone ? If you have your girlfriend or your child with you ? Would you expect your child or fiancee to run as fast as you and maybe risk them to fall to the ground and get beaten up or even worse ? Obviously not !

 

[Tez3]

what is if you are crossing a peasant-tunnel-way

I'm really hoping that you mean pedestrian rather than peasant because the latter conjures up a lot of interesting images, though it's probably better not to use the word 'blitz' that conjures up something else entirely as it means something quite painful to the British though it's something we are inordinately proud of dealing with.

 

[JohnnyEnglish]

I'm really hoping that you mean pedestrian rather than peasant because the latter conjures up a lot of interesting images, though it's probably better not to use the word 'blitz' that conjures up something else entirely as it means something quite painful to the British though it's something we are inordinately proud of dealing with.

yeah I mean pedestrian.

I don't know anyone who has a problem with the term Blitz. I also don't know anyone in the UK who would connect this term used in martial arts with the actual BLITZ mission on London using V2 rockets.

No need to be sensitive, my country was totally bombed out, nearly every city, and I have to see people celebrating British bombers like they are some sort of good samaritans. But we don't want to go there in this discussion, your comparison was inappropriate and fascist towards me. You only came up with it because I am a German. Congratulations, I expected a bit more from you.

 

[Tez3]

yeah I mean pedestrian.

I don't know anyone who has a problem with the term Blitz. I also don't know anyone in the UK who would connect this term used in martial arts with the actual BLITZ mission on London using V2 rockets.

No need to be sensitive, my country was totally bombed out, nearly every city, and I have to see people celebrating British bombers like they are some sort of good samaritans. But we don't want to go there in this discussion, your comparison was inappropriate and fascist towards me. You only came up with it because I am a German. Congratulations, I expected a bit more from you.

Ah well, I suppose you haven't noticed all the celebrations, commemorations going on in the UK this year then. Actually I was telling you not to use the word because it does actually have connotations for the British, if no one has said anything it's because they are too polite. Besides you got it wrong it wasn't the V2 rockets. I was comparing nothing, you noted earlier differences in countries customs and mannerism because you are insisting that in your country kick boxing is something different and therefore you are correct correct, I'm just pointing out it's not appropriate to use the word blitz when speaking English. You wouldn't use the N word to Americans would you, it's a cultural thing, don't read into it more than that.

 

[Danny T]

We have a difference between so called " Thaiboxing-schools " and " Muay-Thai schools ". Thaiboxing is oriented on competitions, the sport aspect, and MUAY THAI is totally concentrated on self-defense.

So all the "Muay Thai" schools, clubs, and gyms in Germany that advertise on their facebook pages and websites that they instruct Muay Thai and show all the competitions and belts their fighters have won in competitions are totally concentrated on instructing self-defense?

 

[Tez3]

So all the "Muay Thai" schools, clubs, and gyms in Germany that advertise on their facebook pages and websites that they instruct Muay Thai and show all the competitions and belts their fighters have won in competitions are totally concentrated on instructing self-defense?

Muaythai Bund Deutschland IFMA International Federation of Muaythai Amateur

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I can only tell you how it is ruled in my country, and when I am telling you that we have KICKBOXING as an own sport, long ago called SPORT-KARATE. Which is literally using Karate kicks and boxing punches, then this is what it is

We may have a communication issue due to the language then. In English, "kickboxing" is the generic term used to describe any combative sport/martial arts training method which includes both kicking and punching with boxing gloves on. As such, it would encompass everything from the PKA to K1, as well as Muay Thai, Savate, Lethwei, (parts of) Bando, (parts of) Jun Fan Gung fu, etc. Bill Wallace and Rob Kaman were both kickboxers, but came from very different training backgrounds and competed under different rules.

Maybe things are different in German.

Can you please write something about the topic ?

Well, as jks9199 was trying to point out, 90-95% of self-defense has nothing to do with fighting, so neither TKD or kickboxing is terribly relevant. However, your question is clearly concerned with the 5% that does involve fighting.

In that case, my answer is the same as I gave at the beginning of the thread - it depends on how you train. If your (TKD or kickboxing) training gets you accustomed to hitting someone hard and taking a hard hit without losing your composure, then it will probably be helpful. If your (TKD or kickboxing) training only covers high kicks rather than low kicks, it will be less helpful. If your (TKD or kickboxing) training includes some skills for fighting in the clinch, it will be more helpful, if not it will be less helpful. If you only train your (TKD or kickboxing) with an eye towards competition rules, it will be less helpful. If you train your (TKD or kickboxing) with awareness of how it would apply outside of competition, it will be more helpful.

Fundamentally, the fighting skills that TKD and (whichever form of) kickboxing aim to develop are similar enough that the technical details of (for example) how you throw a front kick in one style vs another are far less important than the way you train the art in question.

 

[JohnnyEnglish]

So all the "Muay Thai" schools, clubs, and gyms in Germany that advertise on their facebook pages and websites that they instruct Muay Thai and show all the competitions and belts their fighters have won in competitions are totally concentrated on instructing self-defense?

Well, not TOTALLY but mainly.

The competitions the Muay-Thay schools do, are pretty much the same to Thai-boxing schools. The only difference is, that you learn self-defense ascpects 80% of the time in Muay-Thai schools and 90% competition part in Thaiboxing schools.

If you want to be the ultimative Thai-fighter you better see two schools or schools with two instructors who are able to teach you both each.

 

[kuniggety]

Well, not TOTALLY but mainly.

The competitions the Muay-Thay schools do, are pretty much the same to Thai-boxing schools. The only difference is, that you learn self-defense ascpects 80% of the time in Muay-Thai schools and 90% competition part in Thaiboxing schools.

If you want to be the ultimative Thai-fighter you better see two schools or schools with two instructors who are able to teach you both each.

Maybe that is how it is in Germany but that really makes zero sense. Muay Thai is, as Danny T said, "Thai boxing" in the literal sense. It distinguishes itself from Western boxing in the fact that it uses fists, elbows, knees, and feet instead of just feet. It is a striking art with a focus on fighting in the clinch.

 

[JohnnyEnglish]

Maybe that is how it is in Germany but that really makes zero sense. Muay Thai is, as Danny T said, "Thai boxing" in the literal sense. It distinguishes itself from Western boxing in the fact that it uses fists, elbows, knees, and feet instead of just feet. It is a striking art with a focus on fighting in the clinch.

You are maybe right, but I can only talk about things how I know them and learnt to know them.