Kenpo Question

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Oss Billy. The grasshopper learns from riding the wind.

-MB:asian:

And the Tracy's by riding the Golden Banana? :rofl:

It's been a long day...

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Katie Simmons
Parker and Tracy had a falling out back in the late seventies (or therabouts). It was basically the start of all the bad blood between the American Kenpo people and the Tracy crew. It deeply hurt both Ed Parker and Al Tracy; neither of them ever got over it. All the bashing is just spite. They each sort of trained their respective followings against the other, and we all know how it went from there. Anyhow, we know for sure that Ed Parker taught both Al and Jim Tracy. To get the history further back, just contact Ted Sumner at www.sanjosekenpo.com. He's got documentation for most of it.

And the Tracy's also stated in a Black Belt mag article that a Parker black belt is the equivilent of a blue belt in the Tracy system.... I believe that was said after Mr. Parker's death too. Hmmmm, who's was bashing whom?

 

[Kenpomachine]

And you're following their example? Let their words speak for themselves... Enough said.

 

[Sigung86]

Boy OH Boy!!!! I can't wait to see where the Bash Tracy's vs Bash Parker goes this time.

One would think that by now... With all the expert testamony available in the Journey, the Tracy website, and individual, unbiased truths and speculations, that it would have all been put to rest ... Wonder why not?

Unfortunately we, each and everyone, are subjected to our own Belief Systems (BS) ... Most of us can not remember what we had for breakfast yesterday, much less, exactly the way words and deeds went down 10 - 15 - 20 years ago. History and memory seem to have a way of benefiting the rememberer, regardless of PoliticoKenpo afiliation.

It is probably conceivable that neither the Tracy's nor Ed Parker were angels in all the interactions, coming ins and going outs. There were/are some large egos in place, for right or wrong. Is it possible that this is all subjective at best?

I suspect that all the snide comments, second hand investigation, and speculation is not going to put Humpty-Dumpty back together again.



Just some speculations on our individual BS (Belief Systems)

Dan

 

[jazkiljok]

Originally posted by Sigung86
Boy OH Boy!!!! I can't wait to see where the Bash Tracy's vs Bash Parker goes this time.

One would think that by now... With all the expert testamony available in the Journey, the Tracy website, and individual, unbiased truths and speculations, that it would have all been put to rest ... Wonder why not?

Unfortunately we, each and everyone, are subjected to our own Belief Systems (BS) ... Most of us can not remember what we had for breakfast yesterday, much less, exactly the way words and deeds went down 10 - 15 - 20 years ago. History and memory seem to have a way of benefiting the rememberer, regardless of PoliticoKenpo afiliation.

It is probably conceivable that neither the Tracy's nor Ed Parker were angels in all the interactions, coming ins and going outs. There were/are some large egos in place, for right or wrong. Is it possible that this is all subjective at best?

I suspect that all the snide comments, second hand investigation, and speculation is not going to put Humpty-Dumpty back together again.



Just some speculations on our individual BS (Belief Systems)

Dan

the road to all misery in the arts has been money. the business of the arts has more then soured enough relationships and distorted reality and created "truths" for warring factions that simply exist to justify their anger and frustrations born of these deals gone wrong. these "truths" of course are all subject to change depending on the mood of the individual.

Yes, ego also plays a part-- everyone of these pioneers of the arts want (or wanted) what they see (saw) as their proper place in the sun.

and look now at all the Elder, Senior, Successor, Stupendo Grandmasters popping up with their own NEW found facts and truths to justify their "rightful" position in the Kenpo community.

the bashing between kenpo groups is almost as much a tradition now as wearing gi's and saying the kenpo creed.

well that's what my BS says for the day.

 

[Kenpomachine]

But kenpo bashing is only funny if the other people is around to answer.

And if you have a problem with an individual, you'd better sort it out with him than involve other people. IMHO.

 

[bahenlaura]

I believe we can elevate our Art above other's by elevating our Skills, Knowledge and Warriorship above others.

Burt
:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Kenpomachine
And you're following their example? Let their words speak for themselves... Enough said.

I am not bashing...I am stating a fact. I have also seen and have possession of a seminar tape in which Al Tracy himself flat out states that Ed Parker was involved with drugs and was in fear of his and his family's life from threats of Asian gangs. Mr.Parker involved with drugs! I don't think so and why would he be running from asian street gangs for?:shrug: Hmmmm sounds far fetched to me, what do you think?

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
I am not bashing...I am stating a fact. I have also seen and have possession of a seminar tape in which Al Tracy himself flat out states that Ed Parker was involved with drugs and was in fear of his and his family's life from threats of Asian gangs. Mr.Parker involved with drugs! I don't think so and why would he be running from asian street gangs for?:shrug: Hmmmm sounds far fetched to me, what do you think?

I think you are sitting around with nothing better to do than to try and stir up a ration of crap.

Bashing is bashing ... Rehashing is rehashing... whining is whining ... Nothing new ... No change ... Net Zero Gain ...

Jeez ... Just when you think it's safe to go back in the water ....


Dan

 

[Kenpomachine]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
Hmmmm sounds far fetched to me, what do you think?

That's his problem (Tracy's), not mine. And I won't be doing a mountain out of a grain of sand.

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Sigung86
I think you are sitting around with nothing better to do than to try and stir up a ration of crap.

Bashing is bashing ... Rehashing is rehashing... whining is whining ... Nothing new ... No change ... Net Zero Gain ...

Jeez ... Just when you think it's safe to go back in the water ....


Dan

I heard what I heard and saw what I saw. It's not a ration of crap. I am not rehashing, bashing, or whining about anything.

It takes a big man to bash a dead man

The seminar I spoke of was well after Mr. Parkers death. I can't imaging how someone who owes his beginning in Kenpo to Ed Parker could make such bolstrous accusations, especially when the man being accused can't defend himself.

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
I heard what I heard and saw what I saw. It's not a ration of crap. I am not rehashing, bashing, or whining about anything.

It takes a big man to bash a dead man

The seminar I spoke of was well after Mr. Parkers death. I can't imaging how someone who owes his beginning in Kenpo to Ed Parker could make such bolstrous accusations, especially when the man being accused can't defend himself.

OK... Let's see here. Mr. Parker has been dead how long? ...

The battle between Him and Al Tracy has been over how long? ...

You've had your tape of Al Tracy for HOW LONG? ...

Your point for raising issues that everyone who was involved THEN is aware of now, and continuing to rehash and defend yourself and your actions in a Whiney fashion would be WHAT?

This is not whiney rehashing HOW???

What is your desired outcome? Get all of us to get together and go beat up Al Tracy? Make all the Tracy Stylist get together and immediately surrender to the nearest EPAK school and throw ourselves on the mercy of the local Black Belt? Promise to see the light and immediately put on white belts and learn the One True Way?

Seems like you ought to be out practicing your tactile fremitus, or hypodermoclysis, or something else that might be more practical and useful, than this banal effluvia that you are trying to pass off as intelligent and useful posting.

Get over thngs that you can not change ... No one outside of you seems to care anymore. And perhaps me, because knowing who you are, I know that your are capable of much more and better things than this kind of drivel.

Dan

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Sigung86
OK... Let's see here. Mr. Parker has been dead how long? ...

The battle between Him and Al Tracy has been over how long? ...

You've had your tape of Al Tracy for HOW LONG? ...

Your point for raising issues that everyone who was involved THEN is aware of now, and continuing to rehash and defend yourself and your actions in a Whiney fashion would be WHAT?

This is not whiney rehashing HOW???

What is your desired outcome? Get all of us to get together and go beat up Al Tracy? Make all the Tracy Stylist get together and immediately surrender to the nearest EPAK school and throw ourselves on the mercy of the local Black Belt? Promise to see the light and immediately put on white belts and learn the One True Way?

Seems like you ought to be out practicing your tactile fremitus, or hypodermoclysis, or something else that might be more practical and useful, than this banal effluvia that you are trying to pass off as intelligent and useful posting.

Get over thngs that you can not change ... No one outside of you seems to care anymore. And perhaps me, because knowing who you are, I know that your are capable of much more and better things than this kind of drivel.

Dan

I am not whining or bashing or trying to stir the pot. I am simply stating the TRUTH !

I could care less what happened between Parker and Tracy. It has no bearing on my life. I am just stating that in many facets of the Kenpo community there is still mistrust and bad blood. It is true. It happens everywhere where there is a split in ideals or whatever you may have.

I am not saying that Tracy practioners are bad nor would a propose that Parker practitioners are better than Tracy's. But if you want to run to the nearest EPAK Studio be my guest.

The whole jist of my post was to simply point out that things were said some time ago about a dead man who had no way to defend himself. Also, if you read the history on the Tracy website some of it is really hokey. People should hear all sides before blindly believing what they read.

 

[Sigung86]

OK ... Lance... Now ... You are making the sound of a lone voice crying out in the wilderness... It sounds like the Tracy's did something to you that you didn't like much... And you are still carrying a grudge.

You've made us all aware of how evil the Tracy's are.

Let it ride, and get on with things.... I won't post anymore, because you really are beating a dead horse that very few people care about or find relevent to anything that is going on
TODAY.

You have to make your own future in the Martial Arts, not Al Tracy, Ed Parker, Frank Trejo, Dennis Conatser, etc. etc. etc.

You may now have the last word about how evil the Tracy's are ... But when you run out of things to say about them, who is next?

Dan:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Sigung86
OK ... Lance... Now ... You are making the sound of a lone voice crying out in the wilderness... It sounds like the Tracy's did something to you that you didn't like much... And you are still carrying a grudge.

You've made us all aware of how evil the Tracy's are.

Let it ride, and get on with things.... I won't post anymore, because you really are beating a dead horse that very few people care about or find relevent to anything that is going on
TODAY.

You have to make your own future in the Martial Arts, not Al Tracy, Ed Parker, Frank Trejo, Dennis Conatser, etc. etc. etc.

You may now have the last word about how evil the Tracy's are ... But when you run out of things to say about them, who is next?

Dan:asian:

I am sure I am not the only one who feels that way about what happened. Anyone who saw this tape would by now probably dismiss Tracy and drive on, but deep inside it would bother them as it did me.

The Tracy's never did a thing to me. I have no grudge with them. I just made a point that Al Tracy was out of line and that to the best of my knowledge slandered Ed Parker Sr.

This is an opinion board and in my opinion that man (Tracy) is held in very low regards.

This has nothing to do with what is going on today YOU'RE RIGHT ! The original post touted Tracy's website as informative (which it is) and I just gave MY opinion about it. You are the one it seems to have heart burn with what I have to say about Al Tracy. I don't mean to step on toes it just my opinion.

There won't be anyone else, because nobody else has said those things about Ed Parker Sr. :asian: