Karate's Breaking/Tameshiwari has lineage to Korean Breaking Kihapsul/Kiaijutsu

[Dirty Dog]

1. In today's Korea, Breaking/Tameshiwari is often done by Taekwondo, Kooksundo (Korean Taoist Qigong), Charyuk/Kihapsul/Kiaijutsu, Taekkyeon, Gyeoksul, etc.

And all over the world by all sorts of people. So basically, a big "so what" here.

2. Taekwondo topic is long over no matter how much you wish to talk about it.

No, it's not. You made stupid claims. They've been refuted. You don't get to decide when a topic is over.

3. Facts about Taekwondo founders are not really from the founders directly talking but other people talking about the founders.

Right. All of these hundreds of people are part of the Great Conspiracy. Can I offer you some aluminum foil? You might want to make a hat.

4. Some people specifically attacked my motivations & agenda.

Racist agendas should be attacked. Racism is vile.

5. My conclusions follow from my reputable sources. Not a nonsense. What other conclusions are possible without ignoring my references & sources?

Your conclusions are ridiculous and in direct opposition to what people have said about themselves and their training.
Nothing reputable about that.

 

[Steven Lee]

1. In today's Korea, Breaking/Tameshiwari is often done by Taekwondo, Kooksundo (Korean Taoist Qigong), Charyuk/Kihapsul/Kiaijutsu, Taekkyeon, Gyeoksul, etc. These are traditional sports, not a new sports copying Karate. Korea has had Breaking long before Karate started Breaking. These sports doing Breaking is traditional; it has nothing to do with Taekwondo or Karate.

2. Taekwondo is indeed mixed with Gwonbeop. It's not a stupid claim. Also, I said that Taekwondo is mixed with Karate. Hence, Taekwondo topic is over. You don't get to decide when a topic is over. The topic is over when both sides agree that Taekwondo is mixed with Karate.

3. What great conspiracy? You keep saying as if you are quoting something Taekwondo founders directly said, but what's being referenced is actually what other people have said about founders. I'm just making that point aside from how Taekwondo topic is over cause I say Taekwondo is mixed with Karate.

4. Anti-racism is overrated. It's my right to be a racist. Also, it's not racism for Koreans to reject & hate Japan. It is just a racial correlation that Japan happens to be a different ethnicity that's hated. The hatred is not based on racial causation; it's not about Japan being a different ethnicity; it's about what Japan has done in group identity. So, it's not racism to hate Japan for Korean. Also, it's my right to be a racism legally & morally, especially if the racism is within my rights.

5. You keep saying my conclusions are ridiculous, but facts don't stop becoming facts just because you don't like the facts. What other conclusions are possible without ignoring my scholarly references & news organization sources? The sources are reputable when they are scholarly sources & news organization sources that haven't been damaged in reputation. By academic standards, such sources are reputable. My conclusions are different from what people have said about themselves cause they were talking out of *** without researching. Obviously they should be wrong cause they were talking out of ***.

 

[Xue Sheng]

4. Anti-racism is overrated. It's my right to be a racist. Also, it's not racism for Koreans to reject & hate Japan. It is just a racial correlation that Japan happens to be a different ethnicity that's hated. The hatred is not based on racial causation; it's not about Japan being a different ethnicity; it's about what Japan has done in group identity. So, it's not racism to hate Japan for Korean. Also, it's my right to be a racism legally & morally, especially if the racism is within my rights.

So, you're a racist and apparently proud of it..... and yet you do not see why you are not take seriously here...or on your blog......and racism is not anyone's right.

 

[Steven Lee]

Attacking my credibility, motive, character is Ad hominem fallacy.

Also, racism is legally & morally my rights. It's my pursuit of happiness & my freedom of expression & my freedom to think. Free will and freedom. Koreans hating Japan is not racism cause it is not caused by being a different ethnicity; what they have done just correlates to being a different ethnicity. Also, even if we call it racism, it's a rightful racism within Korean's rights. I'm not harming anyone with it; I'm proud with my "racism", yes. I'm proud to think on my own. It's not racism, but even if we call it racism, it's a rightful entitled racism defended by laws. It's my freedom to be a "racist". It's my freedom to hate and reject group identity that have harmed me personally and have harmed my country.

There are a lot of people watching and not talking. I'm hoping my works and writings connected to them.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Attacking my credibility, motive, character is Ad hominem fallacy.

Also, racism is legally & morally my rights. It's my pursuit of happiness & my freedom of expression & my freedom to think. Free will and freedom. Koreans hating Japan is not racism cause it is not caused by being a different ethnicity; what they have done just correlates to being a different ethnicity. Also, even if we call it racism, it's a rightful racism within Korean's rights. I'm not harming anyone with it; I'm proud with my "racism", yes. I'm proud to think on my own. It's not racism, but even if we call it racism, it's a rightful entitled racism defended by laws. It's my freedom to be a "racist". It's my freedom to hate and reject group identity that have harmed me personally and have harmed my country.

There are a lot of people watching and not talking. I'm hoping my works and writings connected to them.

It is not a Ad hominem attack on your credibility if it is something that you state in posts after post and the fact that you seem to feel justified in your racism...which I also get from your posts. You are doing a great job, all by yourself at undermining your credibility, I am not trying to nor do I need to. Your throwing things Chinese did a wonderful job at undermining your credibility and then throwing in Scandinavia......because of a similarity........what you have, and all you have is supposition that is all.

Enough.....like I said before, all you are after is total agreement and support of your flawed hypothesis. I am done letting you waste my time in this thread.;

 

[Steven Lee]

Yes, attacking credibility, motive, character is Ad Hominem fallacy.

Ad hominem - Wikipedia

"short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself"

You are not attacking the substance of the argument.

What flaw is there in my conclusions? What other conclusions are possible without ignoring my reputable references? Be specific what other conclusions are possible from those references. What other conclusions are acceptable for you without ignoring my references? Why are those conclusions acceptable for you? Keep in mind that the conclusions have to come from the references I showed. Don't ignore those facts when making conclusions.

 

[Dirty Dog]

[Repetitive utter nonsense deleted]

4. Anti-racism is overrated. It's my right to be a racist. Also, it's not racism for Koreans to reject & hate Japan. It is just a racial correlation that Japan happens to be a different ethnicity that's hated. The hatred is not based on racial causation; it's not about Japan being a different ethnicity; it's about what Japan has done in group identity. So, it's not racism to hate Japan for Korean. Also, it's my right to be a racism legally & morally, especially if the racism is within my rights.

Actually, Koreans, Chinese and Japanese all share the same ethnicity. There is less than 1% difference between the DNA of a Korean, a Japanese, and a Chinese person. That compares to about a 10% difference between different European DNA groups. So, in fact, Koreans and Japanese are the same ethnicity. Congratulations. You're actually Japanese.

Racism is an ugly, vile thing. When it's directed at your own race, that's not only vile, it's just silly. And that sort of self-loathing cannot be healthy...

facts don't stop becoming facts just because you don't like the facts.

You would do well to remember this. Because your "facts" aren't.

What other conclusions are possible

Why, the conclusion that people were telling the truth, when they spoke about their own personal training.

My conclusions are different from what people have said about themselves cause they were talking out of *** without researching. Obviously they should be wrong cause they were talking out of ***.

Um, people do not need to research their own lives, as a rule.

 

[Steven Lee]

Ethnicity is defined by cultural and historical differences between groups of people. So, Japanese is a different ethnicity.

I'm proud of my racism. It's not racism, but even if we call it racism, I'm proud of my racism; I will not give it up. I'm not harming anyone. My racism is within my legal & moral rights for my pursuit of happiness. It's not ugly to me. It's a rightful racism. The laws protect my racism. There is no self-loathing. Whatever they tell themselves, I still hate & reject them anyway. What they tell themselves is not how I behave & act.

My writings consist of 2 parts: referenced facts & conclusions. If you cannot provide me what other conclusions are possible from the given referenced facts, then my conclusions must be facts. Referenced facts are facts; my conclusions are facts. Or, show me what other conclusions are possible and acceptable to you. Also, why are those conclusions acceptable to you?

"Why, the conclusion that people were telling the truth, when they spoke about their own personal training." What a nonsense. That's impossible because of the referenced hard facts contradicting what they have talked out of *** for so long. This includes Breaking/Tameshiwari. They have been lying; they have been deluding. Oyama taught a new hand strike to Karate that is different from Karate but identical to Korean strike. Korea should be credited for it. Also, Korean Breaking/Tameshiwari was from Korean Kihapsul/Kiaijutsu. This sport was popular and well known.

Sports history needs research just like all other histories. Otherwise, you are making up stories; you are talking out of ***.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Ethnicity is defined by cultural and historical differences between groups of people. So, Japanese is a different ethnicity.

Nope. You're Japanese. Learn to deal with it.

I'm proud of my racism.

What a sad, sad thing for any human to say.

My writings consist of 2 parts

Yes. Racist nonsense and delusions.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why is my work nonsense? Cause you don't want to believe it? Or cause my scholarly sources are not scholarly? Or cause my conclusions don't necessarily follow from the references? This is a matter of logic.

Mostly the part I bolded. Which I and others have discussed with you in other threads at length.

 

[Steven Lee]

I look like a Turkic Siberian. Both my grandfathers looked like Turkic Siberians. I have absolutely nothing to do with Japanese whatever you people tell yourselves with wish, greed, bias. I'm not Japanese. Also, I hate Japan & Japanese. It's not racism, but it's a rightful racism within my rights & freedom even if we call it that.

I'm proud of my "racism". It's within my rights. I can think for myself.

My writings have referenced facts (which must be true) & my conclusions from the referenced facts. What you wish to be true (about what people have been saying about their personal training) contradict referenced facts. Sports history should be researched. Or, it is just an imagination talked out of ***.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Attacking my motivations & agenda is the definition of Ad hominem fallacy. Lots of guys specifically talked about my motivations & agenda. That's a fallacy.

What kind of bias and fallacy is in my conclusions? What other conclusions are possible from the given references? You have to be specific like "these conclusions are also possible but your bias is not considering these conclusions but only considering that conclusion". Or, I don't have bias in my conclusions.

Simply put, what is the conclusion that is acceptable for you? Without ignoring my references? What are the possible conclusions (other than mine) without ignoring my references? Why is that possible without ignoring my references? Why is that conclusion acceptable for you?

We had that discussion in another thread. The exact same reasoning applies here. Since you didn't accept it then, you'd just ignore it here, too.

 

[Steven Lee]

Then be specific what other conclusions are possible from the given referenced facts? And why are your conclusions acceptable for you? Of course, your conclusions must not contradict my referenced facts. Oyama taught a Korean hand strike to Karate cause Karate didn't have it before, Karate had it after, Korean had it before. Breaking/Tameshiawri was well known by Korean Kiaijutsu/Kihapsul; Japan became aware of this; Korean always has had Breaking.

No, all I heard was "your conclusions are wrong, it's biased". I never heard "these conclusions are also possible without contradicting your referenced facts". Or I might have skipped through it if you were flooding with nonsense.

I'm very interested to hear what other conclusions are possible from the given referenced facts I referenced. Oyama taught a Korean hand strike to Karate cause Karate didn't have it before, Karate had it after, Korean had it before. Breaking/Tameshiawri was well known by Korean Kiaijutsu/Kihapsul; Japan became aware of this; Korean always has had Breaking. What other conclusions are possible in this situation?

 

[Steve]

I'd appreciate if you read everything I wrote including the references. Then you can agree or provide counter-evidence. I don't need regular people. I'm just reaching out to objective people and scholars (historians).

Also, it wasn't Funakoshi but Mas Oyama that introduced Breaking to modern practice of Karate. That included a new strike identical to traditional Korean hand strike (shoulder rotation in Gwonbeop & Flag Fight Gitssaum punches, Ikmyung Yang's Hand Breaking also mentions Yong stacking speed & power). Before Mas Oyama, Karate didn't emphasize playing Breaking/Tameshiwari. Also, it was Kihapsul/Kiaijutsu that was doing Breaking/Tameshiwari.

I can only really absorb posts that are 144 characters or so. Blame twitter.

 

[Steve]

Japan borrowed jiu jitsu from Brazil.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Japan borrowed jiu jitsu from Brazil.

Well, at least they returned it, eventually.
Can you just imagine the fine if they had borrowed it in book form?

 

[paitingman]

I feel that it is an injustice for me, my background (Korea), Korea to lose or share anything Korean. Also, it is about the truth, which is important. The sense of injustice & the sense of truth seeking motivate me to keep doing this. Also, I obviously reject some people no matter what they want. (& no matter what they pretend, my actions & decisions do not change at all in their favor & happiness. I still do and be the same regardless of them.)

Also, for the record, Ad hominem fallacy attacking me and pretending I should be discredited despite how I provide legitimate references and how I conclude legitimate inferences.

this post is the most Korean thing ever

 

[paitingman]

1. In today's Korea, Breaking/Tameshiwari is often done by Taekwondo, Kooksundo (Korean Taoist Qigong), Charyuk/Kihapsul/Kiaijutsu, Taekkyeon, Gyeoksul, etc. These are traditional sports, not a new sports copying Karate. Korea has had Breaking long before Karate started Breaking. These sports doing Breaking is traditional; it has nothing to do with Taekwondo or Karate.

2. Taekwondo is indeed mixed with Gwonbeop. It's not a stupid claim. Also, I said that Taekwondo is mixed with Karate. Hence, Taekwondo topic is over. You don't get to decide when a topic is over. The topic is over when both sides agree that Taekwondo is mixed with Karate.

3. What great conspiracy? You keep saying as if you are quoting something Taekwondo founders directly said, but what's being referenced is actually what other people have said about founders. I'm just making that point aside from how Taekwondo topic is over cause I say Taekwondo is mixed with Karate.

4. Anti-racism is overrated. It's my right to be a racist. Also, it's not racism for Koreans to reject & hate Japan. It is just a racial correlation that Japan happens to be a different ethnicity that's hated. The hatred is not based on racial causation; it's not about Japan being a different ethnicity; it's about what Japan has done in group identity. So, it's not racism to hate Japan for Korean. Also, it's my right to be a racism legally & morally, especially if the racism is within my rights.

5. You keep saying my conclusions are ridiculous, but facts don't stop becoming facts just because you don't like the facts. What other conclusions are possible without ignoring my scholarly references & news organization sources? The sources are reputable when they are scholarly sources & news organization sources that haven't been damaged in reputation. By academic standards, such sources are reputable. My conclusions are different from what people have said about themselves cause they were talking out of *** without researching. Obviously they should be wrong cause they were talking out of ***.

I stand corrected.

#4 is the most Korean thing I've ever read

 

[paitingman]

Attacking my credibility, motive, character is Ad hominem fallacy.

Also, racism is legally & morally my rights. It's my pursuit of happiness & my freedom of expression & my freedom to think. Free will and freedom. Koreans hating Japan is not racism cause it is not caused by being a different ethnicity; what they have done just correlates to being a different ethnicity. Also, even if we call it racism, it's a rightful racism within Korean's rights. I'm not harming anyone with it; I'm proud with my "racism", yes. I'm proud to think on my own. It's not racism, but even if we call it racism, it's a rightful entitled racism defended by laws. It's my freedom to be a "racist". It's my freedom to hate and reject group identity that have harmed me personally and have harmed my country.

There are a lot of people watching and not talking. I'm hoping my works and writings connected to them.

OH MY GOD i'M CRYING LAUGHING WITH MY BROTHER!!!!!

THIS!!! THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE MOST KOREAN STRING OF THOUGHTS OF ALL TIME.

You, sir, are a hero to tipsy Samchons everywhere lol

 

[paitingman]

So, in fact, Koreans and Japanese are the same ethnicity. Congratulations. You're actually Japanese.

Don't worry, Mr. Lee. He really means that Japanese people are actually Korean.

It doesn't matter who was first, Mr. Lee.
Korea was first. Because we're all Korean.