Anyone have any info on its history?
Karambit?
- Thread starter Nightingale
- Start date
The two stories that I've heard are that it was developed to mimic a tiger's claw or a rooster's spur (cockfighting is still pretty popular in southeast asia).
Given that the word "ayam" = chicken and seems to be the root word of "karambit" (assuming the "r" spelling is a bastardization or something of "kayambit"), I'm inclined to believe this one. However, the tiger claw theory holds a bit more appeal.
Is that the type of "history" you were looking for? Or were you looking for history of usage?
In use, I think it has served mostly as a general purpose utility blade. Though I think some of the larger versions were probably used agriculturally (like sickles). And, of course, they've been used as weapons
Mike
Given that the word "ayam" = chicken and seems to be the root word of "karambit" (assuming the "r" spelling is a bastardization or something of "kayambit"), I'm inclined to believe this one. However, the tiger claw theory holds a bit more appeal.
Is that the type of "history" you were looking for? Or were you looking for history of usage?
In use, I think it has served mostly as a general purpose utility blade. Though I think some of the larger versions were probably used agriculturally (like sickles). And, of course, they've been used as weapons
Mike
I had wondered about it given the recent rise in popularity in the Kenpo/Arnis lineage guys.
See you soon at Camp Lansdale. Any special requests?
-MB
See you soon at Camp Lansdale. Any special requests?
-MB
While it is used in the Philippines some, I think its recent popularity rise in the Filipino arts here in America is a cross over from Silat. The FMA guys mingling with the Silat guys and seeing it, then starting to investigate it. Don't know about its popularity in the Kenpo community, except that there are quite a few FMA people who are also involved in the Kenpo community. But that's just a guess.
Yup. I'll see you at Camp Lansdale. I'm pretty excited about it. It's always a good time and always fun to get down there and hang out with the crew in Nacogdoches.
Requests? Nah. I'm a real easy going guy. I'll enjoy anything you want to bring out
Mike
M
Michelle
Guest
Here you go...
====================
According to oral tradition that was passed down from master to student for centuries, prior to 1280 AD, most of West Java was part of the indigenous Pajajaran kingdom. The Badui tribe of West Java, the aboriginal people of Sunda, considered to be the ethnic group of the Pajajaran, lived relatively peacefully until the coming of the Majapahit empire (circa 1351 AD). At that time the Badui tribe quickly migrated to the rugged mountainous regions of the west, brought their weapons with them and remained self-governed
The kings of the ancient Sundanese kingdom were considered very powerful. When a king died, his subjects believed that his spirit flitted into the jungles and became the spirit of a tiger. There are two terms for the tiger that rules the jungles of West Java. One is Harimau, which is the generic Bahasay Indonesian word for tiger, and the other is Pak Macan (pronounced Pah-mah-chahn - sometimes anglicized and spelled Pamacan) which loosely translates to great tiger. Thus, the great tiger is very much revered by the Sundanese.
So awed were the ancient Sunda peoples by the power and ferocity of the Pamacan, that the common blade of the people was patterned after the shape of the claw of Pamacan. This very large blade was known as Kuku Macan, or claw of Pamacan. Literally translated as tiger claw, the Kuku Macan was revered symbolically as well as practically employed in battle.
As the saying goes, Necessity is the mother of invention. Like the development of the Western dagger, the Kuku Macan blade design came in smaller sizes and eventually found itself in the smallest size the very personalized Karambit
The Karambit is also referred to as the Kuku Bima (literally the claw of Bima). Pre-12th century influence as a result of Hindus settling in Indonesian archipelago, brought the Mahabharata (great epic of the Bharata Dynasty) and the Ramayana, (two major epics of India, valued for both high literary merit and religious inspiration), to Java. Contained within the Mahabharata is the Bagavadgita (the Lords song) which is the single most important religious text of Hinduism. Bima is one of the most revered characters from the Mahabrapta.
Also known as Kuku Hanuman (literally the claw of Hanuman), the magical claw, which protrudes from between the center of the hands of Bima and Hanuman has become recognized as a symbol of the martial arts of the Indonesian archipelago, namely Pencak Silat and is often attributed as one of the roots of the overall Karambit design.
==============================
---Excerpt(s) from Steve Taranis book Karambit Exotic Blade of the Indonesian Archipelago
Cheers,
Michelle
====================
According to oral tradition that was passed down from master to student for centuries, prior to 1280 AD, most of West Java was part of the indigenous Pajajaran kingdom. The Badui tribe of West Java, the aboriginal people of Sunda, considered to be the ethnic group of the Pajajaran, lived relatively peacefully until the coming of the Majapahit empire (circa 1351 AD). At that time the Badui tribe quickly migrated to the rugged mountainous regions of the west, brought their weapons with them and remained self-governed
The kings of the ancient Sundanese kingdom were considered very powerful. When a king died, his subjects believed that his spirit flitted into the jungles and became the spirit of a tiger. There are two terms for the tiger that rules the jungles of West Java. One is Harimau, which is the generic Bahasay Indonesian word for tiger, and the other is Pak Macan (pronounced Pah-mah-chahn - sometimes anglicized and spelled Pamacan) which loosely translates to great tiger. Thus, the great tiger is very much revered by the Sundanese.
So awed were the ancient Sunda peoples by the power and ferocity of the Pamacan, that the common blade of the people was patterned after the shape of the claw of Pamacan. This very large blade was known as Kuku Macan, or claw of Pamacan. Literally translated as tiger claw, the Kuku Macan was revered symbolically as well as practically employed in battle.
As the saying goes, Necessity is the mother of invention. Like the development of the Western dagger, the Kuku Macan blade design came in smaller sizes and eventually found itself in the smallest size the very personalized Karambit
The Karambit is also referred to as the Kuku Bima (literally the claw of Bima). Pre-12th century influence as a result of Hindus settling in Indonesian archipelago, brought the Mahabharata (great epic of the Bharata Dynasty) and the Ramayana, (two major epics of India, valued for both high literary merit and religious inspiration), to Java. Contained within the Mahabharata is the Bagavadgita (the Lords song) which is the single most important religious text of Hinduism. Bima is one of the most revered characters from the Mahabrapta.
Also known as Kuku Hanuman (literally the claw of Hanuman), the magical claw, which protrudes from between the center of the hands of Bima and Hanuman has become recognized as a symbol of the martial arts of the Indonesian archipelago, namely Pencak Silat and is often attributed as one of the roots of the overall Karambit design.
==============================
---Excerpt(s) from Steve Taranis book Karambit Exotic Blade of the Indonesian Archipelago
Cheers,
Michelle
OP
- Thread Starter
- #6
way cool! Thanks!!!!!
M
Michelle
Guest
No prob.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Some good history there. Where did you get it from?
M
Michelle
Guest
Hi Paul...---
Excerpts from Steve Taranis book Karambit - Exotic Blade of the Indonesian Archipelago mostly.
That particular is blade is ummm....kind of a personal passion of mine.... The modern ones being made right now are really impressive (Strider esp.), but the history of the blade I think is just as interesting and impressive....not to mention the way its used.
Michelle
Excerpts from Steve Taranis book Karambit - Exotic Blade of the Indonesian Archipelago mostly.
That particular is blade is ummm....kind of a personal passion of mine.... The modern ones being made right now are really impressive (Strider esp.), but the history of the blade I think is just as interesting and impressive....not to mention the way its used.
Michelle
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Originally posted by Michelle
Hi Paul...---
Excerpts from Steve Taranis book Karambit - Exotic Blade of the Indonesian Archipelago mostly.
That particular is blade is ummm....kind of a personal passion of mine.... The modern ones being made right now are really impressive (Strider esp.), but the history of the blade I think is just as interesting and impressive....not to mention the way its used.
Michelle
I agree that the history is quite impressive. And (if you don't mind me saying so w/o sounding sexist) but I am impressed with your knowledge and passion for the weapon especially because you are a woman. I don't find many women who are passionate or even interested in weapons based martial arts, or about a bladed weapon especially. There are a few here on MartialTalk, but I am yet still impressed when a woman has some useful information regarding a weapon, or weapons training. You, along with only a select few other gals I know who are into it, are one-in-a-million!
Please take what I say as a compliment; and I apoligize in advance for sounding like a dork.
M
Michelle
Guest
Originally posted by PAUL
I agree that the history is quite impressive. And (if you don't mind me saying so w/o sounding sexist) but I am impressed with your knowledge and passion for the weapon especially because you are a woman. I don't find many women who are passionate or even interested in weapons based martial arts...........
.....
.......Please take what I say as a compliment; and I apoligize in advance for sounding like a dork.
Paul
No apology necessary, and no you didn't sound like a dork. Guess what? I don't find many women who are passionate or interested either... seems I am often the solitary gal, be it class, seminar, or what-have-you. Sometimes it's hard.
I worked the Blade West show this entire past weekend (guess which booth? LOL), and the ratio there was truly glaring. I think I was the only female there that was actually doing any demo or spar work. But it's okay. It takes all kinds to make this world spin. The weapons that have truly resonated with me I choose to research and know their histories well, whether its the kris (keris), the karambit or the new Strider-Buck-Tarani MV-k. I would do no less for my friends. I know them well and I know their histories. And your weapons, like your friends, are something you may need to rely on someday in a major way. It's good to know them well.
Thanks again for your kind words.
Michelle
Michelle
Have you seen and what's your take on the run of custom knives that have been popping up everywhere. I saw the F.Feather and Hemoglobin designs by Blair T. Toys (found on Triple Aught Design Gear Inc. website www.tadgear.com).
Have you seen and what's your take on the run of custom knives that have been popping up everywhere. I saw the F.Feather and Hemoglobin designs by Blair T. Toys (found on Triple Aught Design Gear Inc. website www.tadgear.com).
M
Michelle
Guest
OULobo
Greetings. Actually, I am at work and can't get into the TAD website because of our filters...so....I will have to go off the top of my head.
First, I need to give the disclaimer that I haven't held either one yet.... SO, that being said.... I think they are both beautiful looking pieces, but really, I guess we could open for debate here, what makes a karambit a karambit? It's not simply a knife with a finger hole in the handle. The history of the karambit specifically revolves around the curvature of the blade.. the tiger's claw aspect...so if I'm going to be a hard-*** purist (which I kinda am with this particular blade), I wouldn't consider either one to be in the karambit catagory. I consider these more like hybrids....
The Hemogoblin has basically no curvature at all. So the traditional technique of hooking for trapping/cutting is out the window. It *does* make it more effective for slashing with the inside edge, so that will probably make most people not familiar with using a karambit more comfortable with it. I also really like the reverse tanto, but again, it's such a departure from the traditional "tiger's claw" blade, I really don't look at it and think "oh.. there's a karambit".
The F.Feather is in the same boat in a different way... the crescent of the blade is actually reversed from that of a tigers claw...almost like a small panabas. I would actually like to get my hands on one of these just to see how it feels in a reverse retracted grip, because visually, it looks like it would feel strange. The second index hole is interesting too, but I'm not sure what it's for? I can only guess that perhaps it's for your index finger when holding the knife langit grip? Again, I would like to play with one of these in person.
Neither one has a rear break, so that would be a concern as far as how comfortable and stable is it going to be when you get it out to the reverse grip extended position.
Again, they are both beautiful blades. I believe both are S30V and G10.... can't ask for better. However would I consider them karambits? Not really. Some techniques rely very much on that whole tiger claw curvature of the blade which is absent in both these knives.
Maybe I am too narrow minded in that regard? Perhaps that would be a good questions to ask others. What makes a karambit a karambit?
Thanks for asking about this. You got my little pea brain working this morning!
Michelle
My interest in the karambit comes from training some silat that exposed me to it. Ever since, it has had a feel about it that is just as intriguing as a barong, keris or kukri.
I see what you mean in terms of the hybrid designs verses the traditional designs. On the other hand I have seen quite a few variations on the traditional karambit come over from villages in the malay area, so I tend to not be so strict with the definition.
I do agree that the two designs I brought up are pretty different though. The second index hole in the 'goblin must be for forehand grip. I have been drooling since the strider karambit came out, but it's just too pricey form me. I know his weapon has an established fan following and user base, but recently the market has been hit with floods of cheapies. The most obvious is the M-Tech/BOSS design (which I wouldn't mind if it wasn't so bulky). I have a cheap Pakistani made karambit that I picked up online. It is crap steel and made to sell to rednecks with fancy knife addictions, but with a pretty traditional design. have you seen these and what is your opinion. If I get a chance, I'll post a pic. I have a few traditional (although I think contemporary) peices and one more expensive model, and with my carrying and usage habits I don't want to destroy or have to ditch these, any cheapy recomendations. My most recent choice has been the Hibben Claw II.
Also, what is you experience training with the karambit?
I see what you mean in terms of the hybrid designs verses the traditional designs. On the other hand I have seen quite a few variations on the traditional karambit come over from villages in the malay area, so I tend to not be so strict with the definition.
I do agree that the two designs I brought up are pretty different though. The second index hole in the 'goblin must be for forehand grip. I have been drooling since the strider karambit came out, but it's just too pricey form me. I know his weapon has an established fan following and user base, but recently the market has been hit with floods of cheapies. The most obvious is the M-Tech/BOSS design (which I wouldn't mind if it wasn't so bulky). I have a cheap Pakistani made karambit that I picked up online. It is crap steel and made to sell to rednecks with fancy knife addictions, but with a pretty traditional design. have you seen these and what is your opinion. If I get a chance, I'll post a pic. I have a few traditional (although I think contemporary) peices and one more expensive model, and with my carrying and usage habits I don't want to destroy or have to ditch these, any cheapy recomendations. My most recent choice has been the Hibben Claw II.
Also, what is you experience training with the karambit?
M
Michelle
Guest
What price range are you wanting to stay in? PM me if you don't want to post that.
I've seen some. The M-Techs and BOSS folders scare me quite frankly. A $17 knife.... I don't know. I like my fingers. A liner lock from a $17 knife? I wont go there. Are you talking fixed models? I'll take a Pakistani crap steel fixed over a disposable folder any day, but that's just me. It can do the damage in a pinch as long as you spend a little time taking care of the blade. There are some cheapies coming out of Japan now too that I hear are ok if you want a disposable.
That would be great if you would....
Not really, but I will ask around and get back to you on this. Am I allowed to ask what your "carrying and usage habits" are?
My EDC is a Journeyman folder. I would be sad if I lost it or had to ditch it, but it wouldn't break my heart like if it was some pretty piece from Java....Can I pick your brain on the Hibben? What do you think of it?? What do you like and/or dislike about it?
My experiences have been very enjoyable.
Sorry. Not sure what you mean. Are you asking who I've trained under?Cheers,
Michelle
I've been hoping to hear a review of one of the folding karambits. The only way I'd be likely to get much use out of a karambit is if it folded.
A lot of the folding kerambits I've seen have one distince flaw (in my opinion): when the blade is closed, it intrudes into the hole. The only way for a finger to fit in the hole is with the blade open, so closed use is pretty much out.
Michelle-Have you seen the Hossom/Dionaldo kerambit? I think it debuted at a recent knife show.
I recently acquired the original Hibben Claw. While it doesn't have the traditional shape of a kerambit as most know it (i.e., with the hole in the handle), it's a very nice little blade. I like how it locks in with a snap into the sheath. Makes for a very quick draw. The only problem is that the blade is double-edged, so carrying is out of the question. I am considering grinding the outer edge down so I can carry it.
Cthulhu
Michelle-Have you seen the Hossom/Dionaldo kerambit? I think it debuted at a recent knife show.
I recently acquired the original Hibben Claw. While it doesn't have the traditional shape of a kerambit as most know it (i.e., with the hole in the handle), it's a very nice little blade. I like how it locks in with a snap into the sheath. Makes for a very quick draw. The only problem is that the blade is double-edged, so carrying is out of the question. I am considering grinding the outer edge down so I can carry it.
Cthulhu
K
kenpohands
Guest
Hello there,
Seeing in how you enquire about Karambits and you are involved with Kenpo, You might get an interest in my website
http://www.kenpokarambit.com
check it out and let me know what you think.
Angelo Collado
Seeing in how you enquire about Karambits and you are involved with Kenpo, You might get an interest in my website
http://www.kenpokarambit.com
check it out and let me know what you think.
Angelo Collado
OP
- Thread Starter
- #19
Mr. Collado -
You have some excellent information there! Thank you for the link.
-N-
PS- your forms site helped me get ready to compete in my very first tournament a few years back. thanks!
You have some excellent information there! Thank you for the link.
-N-
PS- your forms site helped me get ready to compete in my very first tournament a few years back. thanks!
I'm looking for about $60 and down.
I don't like the bulk of these M-Techs, but I think the excessive bulk is all that gives them any amount of strength. I also don't like the blade protruding into the ring, as was mentioned by Cthulu. This limits the uses if unopened. I like my little Pakastani jobbie. Its fixed and nice and small and it does have the back barb for good hooking.
Originally posted by Michelle
Am I allowed to ask what your "carrying and usage habits" are?
I usually carry at least a couple of Spyderco or Benchmade products. I have a few Kershaws and a few S&W items. I carry them all the time unless I am traveling on a plane. I load up with multiples when I go out. This is where it gets sticky. If I get in a fight, I would have to be in some serious trouble to draw, as I can usually handle the situation without a blade, but when it is over I don't want to have anything on me when the law arrives to settle up. This is when disposible is good for me. I have a few karambits from around Indonesia. I have one from Aceh, South Sumatra, North Java.
I have been fairly happy with it. Decent steel for the price, nice feel, and I love the "horns" on the ring. Things I don't like include; snags from the "horns", no easy way to deploy or stow, no real grip, and I have already broke one.
Originally posted by Michelle
My experiences have been very enjoyable.
Yep, not fishing, just wondering
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