CTKempo Todd
Green Belt
RevIV said:
I sent Mr. Josh a letter yesterday care of the school address congratulating him on his tournament performance.. (I did the same to Sensei Paul as well as Andy from Kenpo academy.)
I sent Mr. Josh a letter yesterday care of the school address congratulating him on his tournament performance.. (I did the same to Sensei Paul as well as Andy from Kenpo academy.)
CTKempo Todd
Green Belt
RevIV said:
Same here Jesse..
I'm proud to know you and proud of you..Group hug..
The MMA kid!
Green Belt
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but the name of this art, "kara-ho" sounds a lot like a spanish curse-word (carajo pronounced "Kada-ho")
marlon
Master Black Belt
I recently read GM Kouha's book on qi qong. I can say that from the first few pages you can get a wealth of information. The book has an easy clear style of writing that not only makes it easy to understand but also encourages and inspires one to learn more. Thank you GM Kouho
Respectfully,
Marlon
Respectfully,
Marlon
Ryan L
White Belt
Hello Everyone!
I was googling Kara-Ho and came across this thread. My name is Ryan and i'm 16. I have been studying Professor Chow's Chinese Kara-Ho Kempo Karate for 2 years now. If you have any questions about our style, feel free to inquire and i'll be happy to answer to the best of my ability.
First I would like to reply to a post made by Kenpo Guy on page 2.
First: We do not use many high kicks or jumping. Yes there are a few but not many.
Second: Our weapons are (in order) Rattan Bo, Hardwood Bo, Sai, Nanchuku, and the Butterfly Knife
Third: We do use scientific reasoning with our techniques in addition to our KI Principles
Fourth: Our first techniques are Line Techniques 1 & 2 then Basic
I was googling Kara-Ho and came across this thread. My name is Ryan and i'm 16. I have been studying Professor Chow's Chinese Kara-Ho Kempo Karate for 2 years now. If you have any questions about our style, feel free to inquire and i'll be happy to answer to the best of my ability.
First I would like to reply to a post made by Kenpo Guy on page 2.
First: We do not use many high kicks or jumping. Yes there are a few but not many.
Second: Our weapons are (in order) Rattan Bo, Hardwood Bo, Sai, Nanchuku, and the Butterfly Knife
Third: We do use scientific reasoning with our techniques in addition to our KI Principles
Fourth: Our first techniques are Line Techniques 1 & 2 then Basic
Danjo
Master Black Belt
Welcome Ryan. Are you under GM Kuoha?
Danjo
Master Black Belt
Cool. Well, the tapes that I've seen of GM Kuoha and his daughter as well as the books he's written, show a lot of high kicking. Not trying to be argumentative, but if you're not doing that where you train, then you're doing something different from what's been shown before.
Well first off, welcome to MT Ryan! I was trying to see your location as I might know your instructor but I did not see it in your profile. Where and whom do you train with?
In any case, I would like to add some info. if I may- Ryan you are on the right track but let me help out a bit..
We do have a LOT of high kicks spinning kicks and aerial kicks, they appear most often in our forms but are used as a training tool, not for the street.
As for weapons, the first is the Bo, the type (Rattan, oak, Waxwood etc.) is generally up to the student while an instructor may recommend one or the other based on his/her experience. Almost everyone at or near BB uses Waxwood as our Bo forms (including Ta-Ke-Bo Ryan) are based on Chinese spear movements- the waxwood gives the flex and feel which is similar even if there is no metal spear-tip
I recommend using the heaviest Bo possible when starting out to build strength, stamina, and correct movement.
We have 18 weapons in all with 3 Kata's for each- Ryan's order is correct Bo, Sai, Nunchaku, Balisong (Phillipino Knife) also called a Butterfly knife- illegal in CA. by the way... Shhhh...
Scientific reasoning? Yes our techniques make sense based on the way the body moves but we do not use all the jargon other styles use. KI principles are a big part of Kara-Ho as Grandmaster has an extensive Aikido background. Professor Chow taught similar principles, with different jargon. GM Kuoha just made it easier (his own words)
The line techniques are sparring sequences used to teach flow of combinations as it pertains to sparring. There are 3 sets of all techniques with the 1-5's being for up to Shodan, 6-10's at Nidan for Sandan, and 11-15's which are taught at 5th or Godan.
It sure is good to have another Kara-Ho person on here! Ryan, do not be a stranger and if I can be of any assistance please let me know.
Sensei Jamey
San Diego
In any case, I would like to add some info. if I may- Ryan you are on the right track but let me help out a bit..
We do have a LOT of high kicks spinning kicks and aerial kicks, they appear most often in our forms but are used as a training tool, not for the street.
As for weapons, the first is the Bo, the type (Rattan, oak, Waxwood etc.) is generally up to the student while an instructor may recommend one or the other based on his/her experience. Almost everyone at or near BB uses Waxwood as our Bo forms (including Ta-Ke-Bo Ryan) are based on Chinese spear movements- the waxwood gives the flex and feel which is similar even if there is no metal spear-tip
I recommend using the heaviest Bo possible when starting out to build strength, stamina, and correct movement.We have 18 weapons in all with 3 Kata's for each- Ryan's order is correct Bo, Sai, Nunchaku, Balisong (Phillipino Knife) also called a Butterfly knife- illegal in CA. by the way... Shhhh...
Scientific reasoning? Yes our techniques make sense based on the way the body moves but we do not use all the jargon other styles use. KI principles are a big part of Kara-Ho as Grandmaster has an extensive Aikido background. Professor Chow taught similar principles, with different jargon. GM Kuoha just made it easier (his own words)
The line techniques are sparring sequences used to teach flow of combinations as it pertains to sparring. There are 3 sets of all techniques with the 1-5's being for up to Shodan, 6-10's at Nidan for Sandan, and 11-15's which are taught at 5th or Godan.
It sure is good to have another Kara-Ho person on here! Ryan, do not be a stranger and if I can be of any assistance please let me know.
Sensei Jamey
San Diego
(Joe Shuras
Orange Belt
This was the discussion much earlier on in this thread (11/2003):
11-21-2003, 02:03 PM
kenmpoka
vbmenu_register("postmenu_179587", true);
Martial TalkBlue Belt
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 215
[/b][/quote] Quote:
Sho as in shodan could also mean one or first.
Hey Joe,
"Shodan", "first level" is in Japanese. On the other hand "sho tun Kwok" is supposed to be Chinese. No relations there betwwen "sho" "first" in Japanese and "So" or "sho", "hand" in Chinese. Quote:
If I recall, I'd have to check, 'hon' was with another word, for ex., let's say it was the Japanese word for 'finger', and it was describing a 'four finger strike'
In japanese "four finger spearhand or swordhand" is "yohon or yonhon nukite"."two finger poke" is "nihon nukite" . "hon" by itself does not mean "four". Quote:
Keep in mind, these names were created very early on in the arts by Mr. Villari and others. At that time, martial artists were very inexperienced with the oriental languages and many mistakes were made in attempting to utilize them
Then they should have stuck with what they knew and not make a mockery of the system. They could have easily used Kata 7, 8, and so on...
How would a student feel announcing his form in front of a few Chinese masters...My name is.... and my form is
"sho tung Kwok". Whaaaaat?
I am not trying to be stubborn, just trying to bring out the facts. Perfect example of inexperienced martial artists becoming "founders" and "sokes" and "Grandmasters"...
Salute,
__________________
Peter Teymouraz
Martial Arts Institute
First of all, after studying the history in depth since this above post four years ago in 2003, all the founders or sokes or whatever one wishes to call them in this Hawaiian derived Kempo/Kenpo were very young and inexperienced men from Mitose on up the lineage back then. Look at the ages of Kajukenbo's young founders back in 1947-49, especially the ones that went off to the Korean war. Many of our founding fathers, the great pioneers who gave us the arts we have today were, by today's standards, 'inexperienced' but as KenpoJoe Rebelo likes to describe those times as: "The One Eyed man is King in the Land of the Blind". And remember, everyone back then and even farther back, way back, had to start somewhere. Someone or somebodies had to make this stuff up sometime, lol.
Now, with respect to Mr. Villari, perhaps he knew 'more' early on than some people thought or give him credit for. We were misinformed on the spelling of some of these forms, for example, the true spelling of Shou Tung Kwok. Somewhere down the road the spelling was altered but if you check the May 1975 issue of Black Belt Magazine in which Fred Villari was featured you will see the spelling Shou Tung Kwok and how Mr. Villari strongly refers to the Chinese arts not as kung fu or the other various names but simply Chinese boxing and he emphasizes this. He states this is what the true Chinese masters call it. In this same article he states how he founded his own system called: Shou Tung Kwok (obviously he later changed his mind and decided to call the form that was the nucleus of his system by that name instead). I also recall in the old dubbed Chinese made Bruce Lee movies they always refered to kung fu as Chinese Boxing so this does make some sense. Having said that, take another look at this name.
I spent a lot of time researching this on the net and found 'Shou' to mean 'Hand', so it wasn't 'Sho', a Japanese word but a Chinese word after all. I found another Chinese word, 'Tung', (not 'Tun'), one definition stating in some dialects it can refer to 'China' in much the same way 'Tang' is used by the Koreans in Tang Soo Do = China Hand Way. I also found the Chinese word 'Kwok' which can refer to 'Country' or 'Nation'. (You can find other definitions also for these words, it depends on the dialects). So what we have here is "Hand(s) of the Country/Nation of China" or simply Chinese Boxing, the exact point Mr. Villari was making when he mentioned the two terms or names in the same article when refering to Chinese boxing, kung fu and Shou Tung Kwok. Mr. Villari used to tell us back in the 70's when going over this form that it was the first in a series of the Chinese forms, not the name of the form but it's position in the curriculum. Perhaps this confused some and is how the Shou became Sho for 'First' level.....who knows, lol and who cares for that matter.
As far as Hansuki goes, the 'Hon', yes, I would have to agree was an error in spelling unless it was changed for a reason that I have no current knowledge of but I have found it to also mean 'four' and yes, right or wrong, my reference to that was in Robert Trias' book, the second edition (1973): "The Hand is My Sword". However, that is neither here nor there because I found "Han" to mean, as Peter pointed out, "half opening, small opening, gap, etc. Now, in an article by GGM. Ralph Castro he mentions a concept of Professor Chow in finding or creating an OPENING in an opponent's defense (or offense for that matter) through bombarding him with rapid fire hand strikes. While reading this article, it hit me that I wonder if this was the intention of naming this form "Hansuki".......???? Just some points to ponder. As I always have said, history of the arts, all arts, actually history in general, can be pretty confusing at times. History can also represent the perspective of the particular historian. Take today's politics, I bet in the future if a democrat, a republican and an independant all became historians, we would have three different takes on today's world events - Joe
11-21-2003, 02:03 PM
kenmpoka
Martial TalkBlue Belt
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 215
[/b][/quote] Quote:
Sho as in shodan could also mean one or first.
Hey Joe,
"Shodan", "first level" is in Japanese. On the other hand "sho tun Kwok" is supposed to be Chinese. No relations there betwwen "sho" "first" in Japanese and "So" or "sho", "hand" in Chinese. Quote:
If I recall, I'd have to check, 'hon' was with another word, for ex., let's say it was the Japanese word for 'finger', and it was describing a 'four finger strike'
In japanese "four finger spearhand or swordhand" is "yohon or yonhon nukite"."two finger poke" is "nihon nukite" . "hon" by itself does not mean "four". Quote:
Keep in mind, these names were created very early on in the arts by Mr. Villari and others. At that time, martial artists were very inexperienced with the oriental languages and many mistakes were made in attempting to utilize them
Then they should have stuck with what they knew and not make a mockery of the system. They could have easily used Kata 7, 8, and so on...
How would a student feel announcing his form in front of a few Chinese masters...My name is.... and my form is
"sho tung Kwok". Whaaaaat?
I am not trying to be stubborn, just trying to bring out the facts. Perfect example of inexperienced martial artists becoming "founders" and "sokes" and "Grandmasters"...
Salute,
__________________
Peter Teymouraz
Martial Arts Institute
First of all, after studying the history in depth since this above post four years ago in 2003, all the founders or sokes or whatever one wishes to call them in this Hawaiian derived Kempo/Kenpo were very young and inexperienced men from Mitose on up the lineage back then. Look at the ages of Kajukenbo's young founders back in 1947-49, especially the ones that went off to the Korean war. Many of our founding fathers, the great pioneers who gave us the arts we have today were, by today's standards, 'inexperienced' but as KenpoJoe Rebelo likes to describe those times as: "The One Eyed man is King in the Land of the Blind". And remember, everyone back then and even farther back, way back, had to start somewhere. Someone or somebodies had to make this stuff up sometime, lol.
Now, with respect to Mr. Villari, perhaps he knew 'more' early on than some people thought or give him credit for. We were misinformed on the spelling of some of these forms, for example, the true spelling of Shou Tung Kwok. Somewhere down the road the spelling was altered but if you check the May 1975 issue of Black Belt Magazine in which Fred Villari was featured you will see the spelling Shou Tung Kwok and how Mr. Villari strongly refers to the Chinese arts not as kung fu or the other various names but simply Chinese boxing and he emphasizes this. He states this is what the true Chinese masters call it. In this same article he states how he founded his own system called: Shou Tung Kwok (obviously he later changed his mind and decided to call the form that was the nucleus of his system by that name instead). I also recall in the old dubbed Chinese made Bruce Lee movies they always refered to kung fu as Chinese Boxing so this does make some sense. Having said that, take another look at this name.
I spent a lot of time researching this on the net and found 'Shou' to mean 'Hand', so it wasn't 'Sho', a Japanese word but a Chinese word after all. I found another Chinese word, 'Tung', (not 'Tun'), one definition stating in some dialects it can refer to 'China' in much the same way 'Tang' is used by the Koreans in Tang Soo Do = China Hand Way. I also found the Chinese word 'Kwok' which can refer to 'Country' or 'Nation'. (You can find other definitions also for these words, it depends on the dialects). So what we have here is "Hand(s) of the Country/Nation of China" or simply Chinese Boxing, the exact point Mr. Villari was making when he mentioned the two terms or names in the same article when refering to Chinese boxing, kung fu and Shou Tung Kwok. Mr. Villari used to tell us back in the 70's when going over this form that it was the first in a series of the Chinese forms, not the name of the form but it's position in the curriculum. Perhaps this confused some and is how the Shou became Sho for 'First' level.....who knows, lol and who cares for that matter.
As far as Hansuki goes, the 'Hon', yes, I would have to agree was an error in spelling unless it was changed for a reason that I have no current knowledge of but I have found it to also mean 'four' and yes, right or wrong, my reference to that was in Robert Trias' book, the second edition (1973): "The Hand is My Sword". However, that is neither here nor there because I found "Han" to mean, as Peter pointed out, "half opening, small opening, gap, etc. Now, in an article by GGM. Ralph Castro he mentions a concept of Professor Chow in finding or creating an OPENING in an opponent's defense (or offense for that matter) through bombarding him with rapid fire hand strikes. While reading this article, it hit me that I wonder if this was the intention of naming this form "Hansuki".......???? Just some points to ponder. As I always have said, history of the arts, all arts, actually history in general, can be pretty confusing at times. History can also represent the perspective of the particular historian. Take today's politics, I bet in the future if a democrat, a republican and an independant all became historians, we would have three different takes on today's world events - Joe
RevIV
Black Belt
Joe,
def. glad you wrote that again, i was looking for it recently. On Hon Suki Danjo had made a good translation at one time. He said spelled that way it refered to phone booth or something like that. but spelled Hon Tsuki meant power fist. I could be off but it was something along that nature.
Jesse
def. glad you wrote that again, i was looking for it recently. On Hon Suki Danjo had made a good translation at one time. He said spelled that way it refered to phone booth or something like that. but spelled Hon Tsuki meant power fist. I could be off but it was something along that nature.
Jesse
Joe Shuras
Orange Belt
Hi Jesse, yes, Peter and I, independantly from different sources came up with the same translation, so I would have to say it's pretty much on: Han = half or small and Suki = opening. I was reading an article from a karate mag that was posted on Kevin Pence's site, I don't know if it's still there though, it was an article on Ralph Castro. A red flag went up when it was mentioned about Chow's concept of 'to find or create an 'opening' in an opponent's defense through bombarding him with rapid fire striking. I thought maybe this was the original theme for Hansuki and why it was named. Some of these names can be incomplete or a bit abstract to their full meaning but I was thinking, yes, by overwelming an opponent with multiple, fast, hand strikes you would force him to leave a gap (small opening) somewhere in his defense or attack and then BAM! you finish him off. What do you think, Jesse? "Joe"
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