Kajukenpo and AK

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Eric trained under Al Dacoscos with a hybrid .. wonhopkuendo

I don't know what he is doing currently other than movies and seminars.....

:asian:

i though he is a kung fu man because of all his pictures in different magazines

thanks for clarifying

 

[John Bishop]

Eric Lee is a black belt under GM Al Dacascos. GM Dacascos founded the "Won Hop Kuen Do" branch of Kajukenbo. There are 4 major branches of Kajukenbo. "Original (Kenpo) Method", "Chuan Fa", "Tum Pai", "Won Hop Kuen Do".
Within these branches are also various methods or subsystems.
Eric Lee normally only teaches in seminars since he divides his time between L.A. and San Francisco.
You can check Eric Lee's seminar schedule at his website: www.ericlee.com

 

[Karazenpo]

I'm from a direct subsytem of Kajukenbo-Karazenpo Go Shinjtsu. Most everyone covered all the bases on the differences and/or similarities of American Kenpo and Kajukenbo. The core or nucleus of these systems are more similiar than different, however, the major difference that I do see is the lack of groundwork and grappling in American Kenpo. Most EPAK schools that I know of that teach grappling at all take it from another system for it is not included in their curriculum. I've heard some make a case by saying that they don't have to go to the ground or grapple, they end the fight standing up! That's pure fantasy to me! Being in law enforcement since 1977, fights can unexpectedly go to the ground, so expect the unexpected and train for it. Some have even replied that they will counter any takedown-again-fantasy! It could be a slip on your part, an act of God as they say, an icy parking lot, wet street, snow, uneven terrain or your opponent simply takes you down! This to me is the main difference. I have also heard, but don't know for sure, that American Kenpo doesn't concentrate on weapon defenses as intense as Kajukenbo, again, it's just something I've heard over the years. There is not too much jui jitsu either in the American Kenpo from what I've seen. The traditional Kajukenbo & Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu training is definitely hardcore. I really don't know how hard Mr. Parker trained his students as far as that goes but let me also state I have the highest respect for Mr. Parker, his kenpo system and his overall contributions to the martial arts world. Respectfully submitted, Shihan Joe Shuras

PS: There is an offshoot system of Kajukenbo of the late Grandmaster Bill Gregory called Kajuken"P"o Pai Lum which sometimes confuses people on the spelling of the original system. Other offshoots have also used Kajukenpo to distinguish their art from the mother system.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Karazenpo


1-the major difference that I do see is the lack of groundwork and grappling in American Kenpo.

2-American Kenpo doesn't concentrate on weapon defenses as intense as Kajukenbo

3-There is not too much jui jitsu either in the American Kenpo from what I've seen.

1- This perspective is really amazing. I heard some of AK boys MENTIONED about this in the past. NOW, I see 1 outsider MENTIONs it too.

2- weapon defenses MEANS club, knife, gun techniques ??????

3- You mean "NO circular movement" ??? example will be nice.

thanks for sharing

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by John Bishop
There are 4 major branches of Kajukenbo. "Original (Kenpo) Method", "Chuan Fa", "Tum Pai", "Won Hop Kuen Do".

1- Do you a link for Kajukenbo headquarter's web site ????
2- If a person look for a kajukenbo school, how does he know if this school teach "original method" or "chuan fa" or "tum pai" or "won hop kuen do" ????????

thanks

 

[Karazenpo]

CoolKempoDude: Yeah, knife, club and gun. Ak has them but according to some of the AK people I've come across, its not as stressed as much as in kajukenbo. They stress more of the punch defenses. That's what I've heard, anyway. There is no lack of circular motion at all, if anything Mr. Parker stresses the circulartory movements of the Chinese arts, hopefully an AK instructor will read this and enlighten us better. I'm by no means an expert in EPAK, I just have some knowledge of it. One of my past instructors, the late Professor Nick Cerio trained with Grandmaster Parker. However, I have heard from many sources that Mr. Parker cut out a lot of the judo/ jui jitsu of the Hawaiian- derived kempo arts and from what I have seen of EPAK I'd have to agree. Sigung John Bishop can answer any and all questions on Kajukenbo, he is extremely knowledgable. Sigung is also an administrator at the Kajukenbo Cafe as I am a global moderator there. The Cafe has all the information you want on Kajukenbo.

 

[Karazenpo]

CoolKempoDude: I forgot one last thing as to your questions. Yes, each school will tell you which of the four branches they major in or methods for that matter.

 

[John Bishop]

Some Kajukenbo schools

http://www.kajukenbo.org/schools/

Kajukenbo Talk Forum with descriptions of the 4 branches, and a Kajukenbo "Who's Who"

www.kajukenbocafe.com

There is no Kajukenbo Headquarters Website
My website has links to over 30 Kajukenbo Websites

www.kajukenboinfo.com

If you don't know what style of Kajukenbo a school teaches, just ask the instructor.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Karazenpo ,

i am not a jujitsu expert. i need to ask you 1 question
you mentioned "ak not too much on jujitsu".

you meant "not many tweaking arm techniques" ???? if not, what kind of techniques do people consider "jujitsu".

need to understand a little bit deeper

 

[CoolKempoDude]

John Bishop,

thanks for links. If PEOPLE feel the need to add more about the different and similarity between AK and kajukenbo or kajukenbo and AK itself.

pls do that here..... thanks

 

[John Bishop]

Well, there's several EPAK people her that can expand much more on their system. My observations of EPAK have come mostly from sitting on several black belt testing boards, and from some interviews for magazines. So, there's probably some aspects of EPAK that I have not been witness to.
One main differance that I have seen is that jujitsu joint locks and judo throws are used quite a bit in Kajukenbo. Perhaps in 30-40% of the various techniques. These are ussually finishers to kenpo or escrima hand strikes.
Since most of the early Kajukenbo stylists were Filipino Hawaiians, escrima (empty hand) techniques were also put into Kajukenbo. These would be what is described as "limb destruction" techniques. Techniques like bottom fist cutting type strikes on the biceps or triceps.
Most of the Kajukenbo founders and early practitioners were also amateur/professional boxers. Like any poor neighborhood in America, boxing provided a possible way out of the Palama/Kalihi district.
At the time of Kajukenbo's development, you could count the number of martial arts schools that would teach non-Asians on one hand. So the founders felt that if a street fighter had any formal training, it would be in boxing. With that thought in mind, they developed punch defense against a attacker who would throw a right cross, right cross hook punch combination, left jab right cross combination, grab and hook punch combination, etc.
They also looked at what were the common weapons at the time. Hence the club counters and knife counter defenses.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Karazenpo said: The core or nucleus of these systems are more similiar than different, however, the major difference that I do see is the lack of groundwork and grappling in American Kenpo. Most EPAK schools that I know of that teach grappling at all take it from another system for it is not included in their curriculum. I've heard some make a case by saying that they don't have to go to the ground or grapple, they end the fight standing up! That's pure fantasy to me! Being in law enforcement since 1977, fights can unexpectedly go to the ground, so expect the unexpected and train for it. Some have even replied that they will counter any takedown-again-fantasy! It could be a slip on your part, an act of God as they say, an icy parking lot, wet street, snow, uneven terrain or your opponent simply takes you down! This to me is the main difference. I have also heard, but don't know for sure, that American Kenpo doesn't concentrate on weapon defenses as intense as Kajukenbo, again, it's just something I've heard over the years. There is not too much jui jitsu either in the American Kenpo from what I've seen.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

John Bishop,

how about gun techniques ????? people didn't use gun a lot in the past BUT they do nowsday

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Old Fat Kenpoka,

i read your posts about grappling techniques in AK in the past and i felt bad for you because many people jumped in and beat the hell out of you

but we have another person from different art jump in and gave his own *vision*.

You are a brave man and thank you for taking hits . Just kidding

it is good to see everybody's perspective about kenpo. Unafraid. Keep all the good work coming

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

CKD: Thanks for the support. Sometimes I'm a jerk and make people really mad. Sometimes, I think I am right, and really annoy people by letting them know that I think I am right.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

John Bishop,

since you mentioned about filipino art in kajukenbo, i don't know if this filipino is really significant in kajukenbo's development.?????

thanks

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
CKD: Thanks for the support. Sometimes I'm a jerk and make people really mad. Sometimes, I think I am right, and really annoy people by letting them know that I think I am right.

old fat kenpoka,

you really own me a dinner or lunch. Without "my thread", you will always be WRONG

just kidding. After reading another post along with yours, you surely know what you are talking.....because if many people say so, i GOTTA BELIEVE it

After looking around in U.S, AK and Kajukenbo are 2 largest systems.

it is nice to know why they are so popular and the different and similarity between these 2.

if you or anybody have question about these 2 arts, please participate.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

karazenpo,

your system is called Karazenpo Go Shinj U tsu OR Go Shinj I tsu?????

in nick cerios site, yours is go shinj I t su

and your signature is go shinj U t su.

i guess missspelling

 

[John Bishop]

Originally posted by CoolKempoDude
John Bishop,

since you mentioned about filipino art in kajukenbo, i don't know if this filipino is really significant in kajukenbo's development.?????

thanks

I don't know what your refering to?

Originally posted by CoolKempoDude
John Bishop,

how about gun techniques ????? people didn't use gun a lot in the past BUT they do nowsday

The "Original Method" didn't have gun techniques. Since then most of the instructors have added gun disarms.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by John Bishop
I don't know what your refering to?

kajukenbo founders added filipino movement into kajukenbo techniques ????