Journey to a new style...

[Gyakuto]

But not so many the flow of the essay is interrupted. Use large denominations.

Iron them flat and scent them…you need all the help you can get.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Great stuff! Editing down is usually straightforward: remove superfluous words such adjectives, tautologies and the really obscene swear words.

I find that using grammarly gets rid of a large wordcount whenever I have too much. Focuses on all the extra stuff and awkward phrasing, which is normally longer than using correct grammar.

 

[Gyakuto]

Here’s one of mine that I wrote for a competition. I don’t even believe the premise, but for the purposes of the prize money (£50)

Are Budo and Sports Complimentary? | Tozando

weblog.tozando.com

 

[isshinryuronin]

Here’s one of mine that I wrote for a competition. I don’t even believe the premise, but for the purposes of the prize money (£50)

Are Budo and Sports Complimentary? | Tozando

weblog.tozando.com

For the most part, I don't believe the premise either. The article seems to deal with the different "goals" of budo vs sport being compatible. Only one sentence is devoted to the differences in execution, and this is described as a qualified "moot" point dependent on not affecting the core of the art.

The point is that this difference in goals will invariably affect the execution (and thus the effectiveness in the original martial intent) and find its way into the "grass root training." When a school's overriding focus is sport, this will be the natural result. After all, one trains in something the way one plans to use it.

Take iai as an example. Partner training with live blades can be a little dangerous, so wooden bokken were used. Later, the sport of kendo evolved with bokken being replaced with slats of split bamboo. While this sport develops a number of valuable skills, the method of execution greatly changed. The very essence of iai, cutting, is largely replaced with touching. Kendo is a different animal, an entirely different (though related) art from kenjustsu or iai.

In fact, your own sentence I quoted, proves this point. You wrote with winning the prize in mind (much like the goal in sport) and this compromised your execution of the essay to be something you don't even support. So, the goal of writing for "sport" is not complimentary to the goal (of most essays) of sincerely expressing your true thoughts, "budo".

IMO, it's fine to engage in sport MA or insincere commercial "sport" writing, as long as one realizes the difference between these and the ideal intent. So, this is not a criticism of the article, just a contribution to the "moot" point it brought up.

 

[Gyakuto]

Thank you for the unsolicited critique

 

[drop bear]

For the most part, I don't believe the premise either. The article seems to deal with the different "goals" of budo vs sport being compatible. Only one sentence is devoted to the differences in execution, and this is described as a qualified "moot" point dependent on not affecting the core of the art.

The point is that this difference in goals will invariably affect the execution (and thus the effectiveness in the original martial intent) and find its way into the "grass root training." When a school's overriding focus is sport, this will be the natural result. After all, one trains in something the way one plans to use it.

Take iai as an example. Partner training with live blades can be a little dangerous, so wooden bokken were used. Later, the sport of kendo evolved with bokken being replaced with slats of split bamboo. While this sport develops a number of valuable skills, the method of execution greatly changed. The very essence of iai, cutting, is largely replaced with touching. Kendo is a different animal, an entirely different (though related) art from kenjustsu or iai.

In fact, your own sentence I quoted, proves this point. You wrote with winning the prize in mind (much like the goal in sport) and this compromised your execution of the essay to be something you don't even support. So, the goal of writing for "sport" is not complimentary to the goal (of most essays) of sincerely expressing your true thoughts, "budo".

IMO, it's fine to engage in sport MA or insincere commercial "sport" writing, as long as one realizes the difference between these and the ideal intent. So, this is not a criticism of the article, just a contribution to the "moot" point it brought up.

Not really.

It is dishonest to argue that sport doesn't train fighting because it is not fighting. If what you are training is not fighting also.

So yeah. If say a swordsman who has killed 50 people goes on about realism. Then yeah. Good point. But otherwise no.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Thank you for the unsolicited critique

Wasn't a critique at all - nothing wrong with the article. I even agreed with your not buying the premise.

this is not a criticism of the article, just a contribution to the "moot" point it brought up.

I tried to avoid your getting any negative vibes from my post. Was not my intention. Just using it to expand on a related idea.

(drop bear's quote is in post below. it somehow sneaked into this one.)

 

[isshinryuronin]

Not really.
It is dishonest to argue that sport doesn't train fighting because it is not fighting.

I don't think I made that argument at all.

develops a number of valuable skills, the method of execution greatly changed.

Regarding sport version of TMA - both these phrases are generally true. And IMO, sport fighting is fighting, but usually modified as it has been repurposed to some degree, including conforming to a rule set. I don't think anyone would deny this.

 

[Fungus]

For the most part, I don't believe the premise either. The article seems to deal with the different "goals" of budo vs sport being compatible. Only one sentence is devoted to the differences in execution, and this is described as a qualified "moot" point dependent on not affecting the core of the art.

The point is that this difference in goals will invariably affect the execution (and thus the effectiveness in the original martial intent) and find its way into the "grass root training." When a school's overriding focus is sport, this will be the natural result. After all, one trains in something the way one plans to use it.

I spontanously draw the parallell between MA and sports, and science vs engineering. They are also related, yet have different goals and have differences in methodology or execution. The "tools" used in sports, originate from and was developed by MA. Just like in engineering.

MA has a supposedly deeper purpose, like science or philosophy where one loves to understand and grasp the world, just for the intellectual satisfaction and enlightment. The intellectual satisfaction of discovery has it's own value that stands above the superficial utility or what you kan make money from.

There is also a huge different in methdology in the sense that a good engineer is not necessarily a good scientist - or for that matter vice versa! Creativity in engineering is restriced to using a set of proven tools, to solve a specific problem. Anyone who has some relation to the field can understand that that is VERY different from the creativity required to advance or evolve science itself, that requires a kind of actual novelty and sometimes changes in paradigms, that the engineer never deals with, and geetting good at this, requires I think different "training" than that of an engineer. Although one can argue that many of the parts are the same. A strike is a strike, but the motivation, origin and purpose may make all the difference.

 

[_Simon_]

Here’s one of mine that I wrote for a competition. I don’t even believe the premise, but for the purposes of the prize money (£50)

Are Budo and Sports Complimentary? | Tozando

weblog.tozando.com

Dude! I really enjoyed the article. And even if you don't believe the premise, I thought you make very valid points. I feel they can coexist, and often when placed in a "sporting" context it can serve to uplift and inspire others.

I remember watching a tournament, and a young lady performed her kata, and I was absolutely transfixed. I actually cried, not joking. It really really moved me. There was something deeper going on. It's not because it was technically perfect even though it was, there was such a infusion of intention, purpose, spirit and technique, and it was like it created such a harmonic, that the sum was far greater than its parts. I couldn't even tell you specifics really, but it was otherworldly.

Just stirred some thoughts haha. But enjoyed the read, thank you

 

[isshinryuronin]

I remember watching a tournament, and a young lady performed her kata, and I was absolutely transfixed. I actually cried, not joking. It really really moved me. There was something deeper going on. It's not because it was technically perfect even though it was, there was such a infusion of intention, purpose, spirit and technique

A kata well done as you describe can certainly be worthy of appreciation. Since you positioned this in your response to the topic of sport, I think you are commenting that sport TMA, such as kata competition, can still have martial value and be inspiring. This brings up an issue (in my mind at least) of at what point does "pure" TMA cross over into being considered "sport." Is it just the fact that it's being done at a competition, or are there other factors involved?

 

[_Simon_]

A kata well done as you describe can certainly be worthy of appreciation. Since you positioned this in your response to the topic of sport, I think you are commenting that sport TMA, such as kata competition, can still have martial value and be inspiring. This brings up an issue (in my mind at least) of at what point does "pure" TMA cross over into being considered "sport." Is it just the fact that it's being done at a competition, or are there other factors involved?

Yeah I'm not really too sure @isshinryuronin . Whether there is a demarcation line I'm not too sure. I guess when all the training is geared towards competing with the aim of winning said competitions, that may be the line. But I don't really know of any clubs around that focus 100% solely on that. So it seems that the training itself and also the mindset and "why" would be that line. Whether it's as black and white or all-or-nothing I wouldn't think so.

I just see so often the real snide putting down of the sport aspect, where there is tremendous value in it still. I see what it develops in someone, but I'm careful and honest to say that it is not everything. I focus a little on competition for what it means to me, but it isn't everything to me, and I do recognise the bad habits it can create too when you train its methodologies too much.

To me it's better seen as a sub-aspect of the art. There are definite crossovers, but the need to be realistic and honest with ourselves what we are doing and what the limitations are. Issues occur when we overinflated the importance of something or its value with regards to other domains. The sport aspect to me develops certain qualities, skills and attributes. It doesn't develop all, but then I don't know anyone who says that. It has value, but it's not everything.

 

[Gyakuto]

My actual standpoint is I don’t feel TMA and sport are compatible. When I say TMA I mean ‘real’ martial arts that were used in ‘battle’ to kill and maim human beings. The techniques were developed and honed over many years, took lives and caused great suffering to those unfortunate to be in the receiving end. To then use those same frightening techniques in a competition to win shiny medals and trophies….it feels disrespectful and indeed wrong.

Now, I don’t see this applying to sport combat arts such as Karate, TKD, Judo, Chinese martial arts etc because their evolution didn’t involve the large scale killing of sentient beings and many are designed for competitions.

In the field of Iaido, competition Iai is quite different to ‘dojo Iai’. Flashier, overly dramatic pauses and poses. You can spot competitors at seminars etc because of this deviation from the standard accepted execution.

I wrote the essay as an exercise: can I convincingly put forward a view which I do not believe. I leave that to the judges and the reader to decide.

 

[_Simon_]

Did something.... fun today.

I wanted to do a similar challenge to last year's grading prep (I climbed the nearby mountain to the highest peak with 10kg in my backpack). Today I attempted one of the other trails which circles all the way around the mountain... but running it whilst holding a 10kg dumbbell, no backpack this time. *bites nails*.

This walk is incredibly challenging as there are many steps, many inclines, declines, obstacles and even steep rockclimbing sections.

Well...... I did it.

I don't know HOW... the psychological requirements and demand to get through that were just beyond intense... All prior preparation (ankle, knee, hip, shoulder bulletproofing, and trail running) really helped keep good control, but I didn't prepare anything just prior to the run. No mantras, affirmations, meditation, getting in the zone, just went and did it.

I did actually run the majority of it surprisingly, it took 58 minutes total (with one stop to do training of a different sort).

A few things that occurred to me...

1) I treated the dumbbell as my friend, not an enemy, one that I had to get around the mountain, show it all the pretty views.

2) I had to be super honed in on my posture and structure, how I carried the dumbbell weight, in which the position changed MANY times throughout the journey, including over my head at some points, and had keep it really close to my centre the whole time. Carrying it was incredibly challenging, but eventually I just sort of forgot about it. The rockclimbing bits were fun

3) I was so doubtful within the first 2 minutes of even starting, realising this was gonna be far harder than I anticipated... Many demons came and visited along the way, greeting them as though old friends, and I welcomed them to come along for the run if they like . Had many moments where something just broke through, spontaneously a big smile came on my face, but I broke down and cried at the finish line.

Also with every massive boulder/rock I came across I placed the flat of my hand across it... letting it remind me of the strength, solidity and stability that rocks have, a good little reminder and transmission, thank you rocks, you rock

4) I stopped at the platform viewing area, and spontaneously decided to drop into shiko dachi stance whilst holding the weight above my head for 1 minute, followed by 100 punches in shiko dachi, before continuing the run.

Highly recommended, fun times!

 

[Gyakuto]

Did something.... fun today.

I wanted to do a similar challenge to last year's grading prep (I climbed the nearby mountain to the highest peak with 10kg in my backpack). Today I attempted one of the other trails which circles all the way around the mountain... but running it whilst holding a 10kg dumbbell, no backpack this time. *bites nails*.

This walk is incredibly challenging as there are many steps, many inclines, declines, obstacles and even steep rockclimbing sections.

Well...... I did it.

I don't know HOW... the psychological requirements and demand to get through that were just beyond intense... All prior preparation (ankle, knee, hip, shoulder bulletproofing, and trail running) really helped keep good control, but I didn't prepare anything just prior to the run. No mantras, affirmations, meditation, getting in the zone, just went and did it.

I did actually run the majority of it surprisingly, it took 58 minutes total (with one stop to do training of a different sort).

A few things that occurred to me...

1) I treated the dumbbell as my friend, not an enemy, one that I had to get around the mountain, show it all the pretty views.

2) I had to be super honed in on my posture and structure, how I carried the dumbbell weight, in which the position changed MANY times throughout the journey, including over my head at some points, and had keep it really close to my centre the whole time. Carrying it was incredibly challenging, but eventually I just sort of forgot about it. The rockclimbing bits were fun

3) I was so doubtful within the first 2 minutes of even starting, realising this was gonna be far harder than I anticipated... Many demons came and visited along the way, greeting them as though old friends, and I welcomed them to come along for the run if they like . Had many moments where something just broke through, spontaneously a big smile came on my face, but I broke down and cried at the finish line.

Also with every massive boulder/rock I came across I placed the flat of my hand across it... letting it remind me of the strength, solidity and stability that rocks have, a good little reminder and transmission, thank you rocks, you rock

4) I stopped at the platform viewing area, and spontaneously decided to drop into shiko dachi stance whilst holding the weight above my head for 1 minute, followed by 100 punches in shiko dachi, before continuing the run.

Highly recommended, fun times!

View attachment 31760

Wow! That is incredible and foolhardy too What if you’d pulled a muscle, ripped your rotator cuff or even broken a bone? No grading attempt for you! NASA used to forbid extreme activities amongst their Apollo astronauts just prior to a flight to prevent an aborted launch.

Do your usual preparation, _Simon_, but until your grading, encase yourself in large cell bubble wrap, lie in a quiet, darkened room with whale calls playing in the background! When you pass, then you can do this sort of stuff!

 

[Fungus]

Gyakuto probably have a good point but more power to you, that is Impressive! Why make it easy, when you can make it harder?

Sounds like you gained lots of mental strength! The next opponent facing you have to work and give you a harder time than a 1 hour dumbdell run to take you down

 

[_Simon_]

Wow! That is incredible and foolhardy too What if you’d pulled a muscle, ripped your rotator cuff or even broken a bone? No grading attempt for you! NASA used to forbid extreme activities amongst their Apollo astronauts just prior to a flight to prevent an aborted launch.

Do your usual preparation, _Simon_, but until your grading, encase yourself in large cell bubble wrap, lie in a quiet, darkened room with whale calls playing in the background! When you pass, then you can do this sort of stuff!

Nah, had done this trail many many times before, just an added element of challenge to get my endurance etc up. All part of my process. But no more of these types of sessions, that was my last huge run prior. The next two weeks will be much cruisier

 

[_Simon_]

Gyakuto probably have a good point but more power to you, that is Impressive! Why make it easy, when you can make it harder?

Sounds like you gained lots of mental strength! The next opponent facing you have to work and give you a harder time than a 1 hour dumbdell run to take you down

Thanks mate, haha for sure. I actually derived this from one of my fellow Kyokushin training buddies, training for his Shodan he did this exact trail, but wearing a 20kg vest, AND carrying a 12kg boxing bag on his shoulders! But he was another level of beast haha. He inspired me and years later here we are haha

 

[Gyakuto]

Nah, had done this trail many many times before, just an added element of challenge to get my endurance etc up. All part of my process. But no more of these types of sessions, that was my last huge run prior. The next two weeks will be much cruisier

Do you have large quantities of cotton wool and bubble wrap?

 

[isshinryuronin]

My actual standpoint is I don’t feel TMA and sport are compatible.

I mostly agree with this sentiment. Sport requires the bastardization of TMA for safety, entertainment and scoring purposes. This can be (and is) carried to the point that sport ceases to be TMA, but a system unto itself. But there can be, IMO, exceptions to them being completely incompatible.

In some tournaments, kata competition is done traditionally with no favor to non-combat moves as gymnastics, dramatic posing, and throwing or spinning weapons midair. But it's often hard to find judges with enough sense to discount such moves. Strict, knowledgeable, and traditional judges can do much to preserve the traditional aspect.

During rare sparring competition I strove to employ TMA karate kata techniques as much as practical. Nowadays I put this goal equal to that of winning as a personal challenge to demo the effectiveness of TMA, even in a sport environment. It is often effective as the opponent has not experienced such techniques.

But I'll again stress, the premises of TMA and sport MA are mostly at odds with each other.