Journey to a new style...

[JR 137]

Sometimes, you just have to figure out what you don’t want before you can figure out what you do actually want.

Happens to me all the time in pubs and restaurants

 

[_Simon_]

Sometimes, you just have to figure out what you don’t want before you can figure out what you do actually want.

Happens to me all the time in pubs and restaurants

Hahaha... yeah good point actually, quite true . It may just be a process huh

 

[_Simon_]

Just had my last session at the karate dojo. I've enjoyed my time there to a certain degree, but in another I know I haven't fallen in love with it. Have learned alot there, but time to move on. A bit disappointed that this wasn't the one (only because I had my expectations at the start that it may be haha, so that's on me), but even if I don't find something too local, I'm thinking of branching out a bit wider, even if it's 30mins or so to get there.

It's strange and interesting, I know what really clicks moreso feeling-wise and when I can feel what's not clicking, so it's nice to really listen and get in tune with that intuitive feel that I'd always struggled with for many years.

Next adventure in a few weeks.... [emoji1625][emoji109]

 

[_Simon_]

Not sure when I can try a new style, as a few changes happening job wise, but just a solid 45min session of kihon/basics at home.

Really focused in this session to do all my techniques with a more relaxed nature (like Sensei Rick Hotton teaches, ps. am a BIG fan): relaxed before, tension upon completion, and relaxation straight after. Literally overemphasising it even to floppy arms after I did them! It felt so nice and I felt much less drained, as my whole body was responding to it. And I did 20 of each technique which I hadn't done in ages, and felt really good afterwards!

Even tried moving in zenkutsu dachi doing lunge and reverse punches and trying to feel my body relax through the movement rather than forcing a big push and big step. Stopping in between techniques to bounce at the knees a bit to feel the groundedness.

Gonna explore this much more, moving and training much more naturally without excess tension. Even if I went out of my rigid sanchin dachi stance slightly I just sort of let it happen, and still focused on that connection with the ground. Learned alot this session .

 

[_Simon_]

Has been a little while, but have been letting my ankle heal up a bit (sprained), and also a change of employment circumstances XD, but I thought screw it, so I called up the next place on my list to try out: Tang Soo Tao!

They're literally just around the corner from me, instructor seemed nice enough, am gonna sit in and watch a class on Monday.

 

[dvcochran]

Okay... the time has come!

I'm finally (after much, much hesitation and deliberation haha..) enquiring about new styles, as I'm honestly just itching to get back into dojo training.. and feel mostly ready health-wise.

It's been an incredibly rough, painful, hellish and emotional 8 months or so.. and I still have a bit to go in terms of recovery, but I feel ready enough to try getting into training properly again. And it really marks a big step for me, as I definitely wasn't in this position a little while ago.

So the plan is to try a style for about a month or so to get the feel of it and see if it clicks with me. Very different to how I decided before, which was just training because I 'felt like I should', out of obligation almost. So suffice it to say, I'm very excited .

I've gotten a call back from a karate dojo just around the corner from me, I asked if i can sit in and watch and they said people tend to get more out of just giving it a go, so they invited me to train so looks like I'm training!

It sounds really awesome, it's a small dojo, and has gone through a few changes of style affiliation over time, and I think they operate more independently now, originally he trained in Kyokushin (and personally graded to Shodan under Sosai Oyama!), then Ashihara, Shintaiikudo, and taught in all of these, now with all his experience has organically sort of formed his own style, which incorporates all his previous styles plus including some Aikido principles as well (which he teaches as well).

Definitely sounds more up my alley, I'm really excited

Great to hear. Keep us in the loop.

 

[_Simon_]

Visited the Tang Soo dojang tonight, instructor seemed a really nice guy, and I enjoyed watching the class.

Most of it was taken by the assistant instructor (a younger 2nd dan, but a very good instructor), and it was mainly younger people training (oldest was probably 18 maybe?). I know alot of people would absolutely not be a fan of the one-step sparring sequences they did.. but I was impressed with alot of the higher grades technique.

I don't know too much about Tang Soo, but it seems like a cool blend. Apparently the hard kicking techniques from MDK/Taekkyon, and soft techniques from Chinese arts. I didn't really see the Chinese influence, it definitely looked more like karate hand techniques though (Shotokan influence I heard too..).

Am gonna organise an intro class for next Friday and give it a go

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Has been a little while, but have been letting my ankle heal up a bit (sprained), and also a change of employment circumstances XD, but I thought screw it, so I called up the next place on my list to try out: Tang Soo Tao!

They're literally just around the corner from me, instructor seemed nice enough, am gonna sit in and watch a class on Monday.

Let us know what you see and think. Checking out a new potential school can be a lot of fun.

Visited the Tang Soo dojang tonight, instructor seemed a really nice guy, and I enjoyed watching the class.

Most of it was taken by the assistant instructor (a younger 2nd dan, but a very good instructor), and it was mainly younger people training (oldest was probably 18 maybe?). I know alot of people would absolutely not be a fan of the one-step sparring sequences they did.. but I was impressed with alot of the higher grades technique.

I don't know too much about Tang Soo, but it seems like a cool blend. Apparently the hard kicking techniques from MDK/Taekkyon, and soft techniques from Chinese arts. I didn't really see the Chinese influence, it definitely looked more like karate hand techniques though (Shotokan influence I heard too..).

Am gonna organise an intro class for next Friday and give it a go

Hmm...clearly either you didn't wait until Monday, or I'm confused about days of the week. Or you're in a vastly different time zone. Or all of that??

Anyway, glad you saw something that looked interesting. Hope the first classes keep that feeling going for ya.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't know too much about Tang Soo, but it seems like a cool blend. Apparently the hard kicking techniques from MDK/Taekkyon, and soft techniques from Chinese arts. I didn't really see the Chinese influence, it definitely looked more like karate hand techniques though (Shotokan influence I heard too..).

Am gonna organise an intro class for next Friday and give it a go

For starters, it's Tang Soo Do, not Tang Soo.
There are no kicking techniques from Taekkyon, because Taekkyon is a dead art.
Tang Soo Do is the branch of the Moo Duk Kwan that split from GM HWANG, Kee during the time after he left the unification movement but before he changed the name to Soo Bahk Do.
It's basically Shotokan karate as taught by GM HWANG. It uses the same kata as Shotokan, though I believe that they're taught in a different order (this may be incorrect, as I am going from memory, and we all know how that works...).
As for Chinese influences... GM HWANG reportedly had some training in Northern Chinese styles, but I've never really seen any evidence of this.

 

[Hanzou]

Simon, have you ever considered a grappling style like Judo, Bjj, or even Aikido? The systems you're practicing are actually quite similar to each other. Maybe you'd like something different?

 

[oftheherd1]

Simon, have you ever considered a grappling style like Judo, Bjj, or even Aikido? The systems you're practicing are actually quite similar to each other. Maybe you'd like something different?

While I also think grappling styles have a place in MA, one needs to examine closely what styles someone may recommend, as to reason the person recommends a particular style, and what are the characteristics of a style that you would like.

For example, there is a person on MT (I'm trying to remember the name ) who always recommends BJJ as if there is nothing else worth discussing. Me on the other hand, I very often recommend Hapkido. I have the best of reasons so I don't need to discuss good reasons.

Seriously, we all have our preferences, and may sometimes have trouble articulating why we feel one art, especially grappling arts, may be better than others. You also need to know what you are looking for in an art. The Hapkido I studied was defense oriented in that we would normally wait until we were attacked and respond with the intent to cause pain or injury, intending to prevent further attacks. Whereas my observations have been that Aikido normally doesn't intend to injure (but understands that may be a consequence of a defensive technique) but rather defend in a way that prevents injury to the practitioner, and waits until the attacker gets tired of being thrown around and quits attacking. Very different concepts. You need to know which one you can most easily find comfort with. And within Hapkido or other grappling arts you may still find schools that don't agree with what I say and teach a different method of defense.

Hope that helps.

 

[Hanzou]

While I also think grappling styles have a place in MA, one needs to examine closely what styles someone may recommend, as to reason the person recommends a particular style, and what are the characteristics of a style that you would like.

For example, there is a person on MT (I'm trying to remember the name ) who always recommends BJJ as if there is nothing else worth discussing. Me on the other hand, I very often recommend Hapkido. I have the best of reasons so I don't need to discuss good reasons.

Seriously, we all have our preferences, and may sometimes have trouble articulating why we feel one art, especially grappling arts, may be better than others. You also need to know what you are looking for in an art. The Hapkido I studied was defense oriented in that we would normally wait until we were attacked and respond with the intent to cause pain or injury, intending to prevent further attacks. Whereas my observations have been that Aikido normally doesn't intend to injure (but understands that may be a consequence of a defensive technique) but rather defend in a way that prevents injury to the practitioner, and waits until the attacker gets tired of being thrown around and quits attacking. Very different concepts. You need to know which one you can most easily find comfort with. And within Hapkido or other grappling arts you may still find schools that don't agree with what I say and teach a different method of defense.

Hope that helps.

The only reason I didn't recommend Hapkido is that there's such a range in quality of instruction (some of which have dubious origins), and overall quality control in that particular art isn't the best. Some instructors literally combine TKD with Aikido and call it Hapkido. You simply have a higher chance of receiving quality instruction in a Bjj, Judo, or Aikido school.

 

[oftheherd1]

The only reason I didn't recommend Hapkido is that there's such a range in quality of instruction (some of which have dubious origins), and overall quality control in that particular art isn't the best. Some instructors literally combine TKD with Aikido and call it Hapkido.

I was intending to be facetious in the second paragraph. I must not have carried that over well.

I can't really comment on other Hapkido schools and/or instructors though, only the Hapkido I studied. That's why when I comment on it, I usually say "in the Hapkido I studied."

But I thought that was a problem with most martial arts. So you may be painting with too large a brush. Do those things occur in the martial art you study, I forget, what was it?

 

[Hanzou]

I was intending to be facetious in the second paragraph. I must not have carried that over well.

I can't really comment on other Hapkido schools and/or instructors though, only the Hapkido I studied. That's why when I comment on it, I usually say "in the Hapkido I studied."

But I thought that was a problem with most martial arts. So you may be painting with too large a brush. Do those things occur in the martial art you study, I forget, what was it?

Due to their highly competitive nature, it's much harder for Judo and BJJ to get away with BS.

 

[dvcochran]

Visited the Tang Soo dojang tonight, instructor seemed a really nice guy, and I enjoyed watching the class.

Most of it was taken by the assistant instructor (a younger 2nd dan, but a very good instructor), and it was mainly younger people training (oldest was probably 18 maybe?). I know alot of people would absolutely not be a fan of the one-step sparring sequences they did.. but I was impressed with alot of the higher grades technique.

I don't know too much about Tang Soo, but it seems like a cool blend. Apparently the hard kicking techniques from MDK/Taekkyon, and soft techniques from Chinese arts. I didn't really see the Chinese influence, it definitely looked more like karate hand techniques though (Shotokan influence I heard too..).

Am gonna organise an intro class for next Friday and give it a go

It is good to hear TSD is alive and well in Australia. Let us know how it goes.

 

[dvcochran]

For starters, it's Tang Soo Do, not Tang Soo.
There are no kicking techniques from Taekkyon, because Taekkyon is a dead art.
Tang Soo Do is the branch of the Moo Duk Kwan that split from GM HWANG, Kee during the time after he left the unification movement but before he changed the name to Soo Bahk Do.
It's basically Shotokan karate as taught by GM HWANG. It uses the same kata as Shotokan, though I believe that they're taught in a different order (this may be incorrect, as I am going from memory, and we all know how that works...).
As for Chinese influences... GM HWANG reportedly had some training in Northern Chinese styles, but I've never really seen any evidence of this.

I am pretty sure the first two pinon forms are the same. The others are in a different order. And I have seen them taught slightly different.

 

[dvcochran]

The only reason I didn't recommend Hapkido is that there's such a range in quality of instruction (some of which have dubious origins), and overall quality control in that particular art isn't the best. Some instructors literally combine TKD with Aikido and call it Hapkido. You simply have a higher chance of receiving quality instruction in a Bjj, Judo, or Aikido school.

I have got to disagree there. By the sheer number of dojo/dojangs alone the numbers get skewed. That is always one of the go to arguments used against Korean arts in general. To my knowledge there has never been an actual study that says there are more bad schools/instructors in one style vs. other styles based on the number of schools per style. Of course there are going to be more bad, and good instructor in the Korean arts simply because there are so many more of them. Duh.
Saturation can do some weird things in analytics. One of the interesting things it can uncover is in quality control. At about 70% repeatability, if a high value product is sold in a given area, the competitive products around it will increase in quality. In other words, a good school most often breeds better schools around it. Conversely, the negative product in the same scenario does not breed the equal effect. It either moves into a lower tier across all ranges or just goes away. Whew!
Bad it bad, it has nothing to do with style. When you factor out emotions and opinion it is easier to measure quality. That said, how do you take the emotion out of MA,s? Should never be done so the argument will continue. However, when recommending your style when not solicited, that falls into giving a bad or inappropriate opinion. Yea, I just gave my opinion.

 

[Hanzou]

I have got to disagree there. By the sheer number of dojo/dojangs alone the numbers get skewed. That is always one of the go to arguments used against Korean arts in general. To my knowledge there has never been an actual study that says there are more bad schools/instructors in one style vs. other styles based on the number of schools per style. Of course there are going to be more bad, and good instructor in the Korean arts simply because there are so many more of them. Duh.

Well, not necessarily.

There's two issues with Hapkido: Historical issues, and Modern issues.

The historical issues are two fold: The founder's account of where he learned his art is highly questionable. A Hapkido practitioner assassinated a president of South Korea so the are got a bad rap and was intentionally watered down in Korea.

The modern issues are that there's multiple types of Hapkido, there's a lack of Hapkido in combat sports, some TKD instructors magically became Hapkido instructors in the 90s and 2000s, and some of the modern claims of some practitioners are dubious.

And all of that leads to quality control issues.

 

[JR 137]

I am pretty sure the first two pinon forms are the same. The others are in a different order. And I have seen them taught slightly different.

The first 2 Pinan forms’ order is usually what’s changed. 1 is sometimes called 2, 2 sometimes 1, and a few places will teach 2 before 1. 3-5 aren’t changed nor debated. Not in any karate that I’ve seen anyway.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The historical issues are two fold: The founder's account of where he learned his art is highly questionable.

I've never found issues with origin to be significant to an art. It wouldn't matter (from a functional standpoint) if he'd made up the entire origin story.