Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Ehhh, OK. Did you think about this in advance, or just post it to seem macho?
Joo Bang Lee
- Thread starter IcemanSK
- Start date
Ehhh, OK. Did you think about this in advance, or just post it to seem macho?
ancient warrior
Yellow Belt
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
I heard or read that Master Michael Wollmerhauser was promoted to 8th dan by GM Choi.
iron_ox
Black Belt
Hello all,
No, he was given a certificate from Choi Dojunim. It was not an 8th Dan (I have actually seen it). Grandmaster Lim promoted him. I do not have access to the certs., so cannot tell you the rank.
My original comment appears to be holding true, that location did play some role in grading at the higher ranks. Barring any other actual certificates from Choi Dojunim that might surface.
mystic warrior
Green Belt
Post like these kill me.
Why do you all care so much about a man that dosn't even care or know about you.
Is life that boring for you that you waste bandwith on this over and over again.
So what he does things that you do not like. If you think you can do better than do it. Quit wasting time on here and do it.
Other wise it is all talk and whinning from people who are all just talk.
No I am not defending Mr. Lee. But I am thinking that the people that complain the most live on forums like this one and just wait to complain about things like this because they have nothing of real importance going on in there own lives. And if this gets me kicked off this fourm. It would suck but. It is the truth.
Let me ask you this is your training up to snuff to make comments on anyone else or they way they do things. And who gives you the right to judge him. How about we put your life on for the world to see. I am sure there are things that would make all of us go ah no about you too.
I think there needs to be a call for growing up on martial arts forums.
Instead of this high school stuff that is passed off as smart talk.
Too I do not care what he does and here is why. When I die will I be worried about a man that did this or that. NO! I think I would be worried about my loved ones caring about me.
Life is to short to be wasting it on stupied **** like this.
But just a thought.
Why do you all care so much about a man that dosn't even care or know about you.
Is life that boring for you that you waste bandwith on this over and over again.
So what he does things that you do not like. If you think you can do better than do it. Quit wasting time on here and do it.
Other wise it is all talk and whinning from people who are all just talk.
No I am not defending Mr. Lee. But I am thinking that the people that complain the most live on forums like this one and just wait to complain about things like this because they have nothing of real importance going on in there own lives. And if this gets me kicked off this fourm. It would suck but. It is the truth.
Let me ask you this is your training up to snuff to make comments on anyone else or they way they do things. And who gives you the right to judge him. How about we put your life on for the world to see. I am sure there are things that would make all of us go ah no about you too.
I think there needs to be a call for growing up on martial arts forums.
Instead of this high school stuff that is passed off as smart talk.
Too I do not care what he does and here is why. When I die will I be worried about a man that did this or that. NO! I think I would be worried about my loved ones caring about me.
Life is to short to be wasting it on stupied **** like this.
But just a thought.
SageGhost83
Brown Belt
Yikes, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. It is a forum. In forums, you talk about stuff. This just happens to be one of the things that the people of the forum decided to talk about. What is wrong with that? Are you saying that people don't have the right to talk about it? Why are they wasting time on stuff like this? Why are *YOU* wasting time blasting them for it, and why are *YOU* passing your own judgment on them? If you don't like it, then the mature thing to do is to ignore it, not have a virtual breakdown and possibly get yourself in trouble on the forum. I mean, if you don't care what JBL does, then why even waste time posting in this thread to begin with? People care about this man because there are those who have heard about him and have a genuine curiosity about his practices. What is wrong with that? If he lies and has been caught lying many times (which he definitely has) then what is so wrong about calling him on it and holding him accountable for it? And again, what does one's level of training have to do with such a simple act as telling the truth? You can't use rank as a cover up or an excuse for dishonesty. I would hope that real honesty is something that is instilled in somebody at a young age. He lied big time, and people know that he lied. They hold him accountable and you say they are whining. Then you casually pass off the fact that he lied by saying "so what he does things that you do not like". I don't know, but if someone is a big liar, then I would hope that people would have enough common sense and self respect to at least call him on it and question his little habit. You think these people are all just talk, huh? Dude, you don't even know these people. Go to a meet and greet and they will make it clear as day that they are more than just talk
. One other thing - CHILL OUT MAN!mystic warrior
Green Belt
Ok I have no problem having an open discussion on any topic, that is cool.
Even if it is about Mr. Lee. However when it is beaten to death over and over again. And no body uses the search on the forum that our mod's put there for a reason. Then it is like kicking the slow kid or better yet a dead horse. That is all I am saying. We all know that most of the people that get on foums that train in korean martial arts do not like Mr. lee for reason that are there own thats fine.
And you should have a voice to express it.
But do the home work first and see if there is a post here that has all ready covered it. I have come on this forums a few times and not posted because it is some times the same thing just worded different.
I come on we are all smarter than that.
I like learning new things but doing the same thing over and over again. Unless its training, is boring and leads no where.
Just filling up bandwith for no real reason.
But then again if it were not Mr. Lee, then you would pick on Mr. Suh from kuk sool or the wanna be ninja from youtube.
I would like to think we are better than the pettiness.
So I hope I can be proven right.
Even if it is about Mr. Lee. However when it is beaten to death over and over again. And no body uses the search on the forum that our mod's put there for a reason. Then it is like kicking the slow kid or better yet a dead horse. That is all I am saying. We all know that most of the people that get on foums that train in korean martial arts do not like Mr. lee for reason that are there own thats fine.
And you should have a voice to express it.
But do the home work first and see if there is a post here that has all ready covered it. I have come on this forums a few times and not posted because it is some times the same thing just worded different.
I come on we are all smarter than that.
I like learning new things but doing the same thing over and over again. Unless its training, is boring and leads no where.
Just filling up bandwith for no real reason.
But then again if it were not Mr. Lee, then you would pick on Mr. Suh from kuk sool or the wanna be ninja from youtube.
I would like to think we are better than the pettiness.
So I hope I can be proven right.
SageGhost83
Brown Belt
Yes, I agree that the OP should've used the search feature, however, the way that you lost it in your post was...um...interesting. Look, there are lots of things within this forum that gets under *my* skin, too (like that whole history of TKD thing - man, that just simply won't die :angry:!). however, I handle it in a more constructive fashion and that is really what I am getting at here. Believe it or not, there are many people who still fervently defend JBL regardless of what he did. The difference is that instead of losing it, going haywire about it in a public forum, and openly attacking all of the members of that forum, they either discuss it in a respectful and constructive manner or they discuss it via PM. Don't think that only JBL is being picked on, either - Ashida Kim got far more of an internet beat down than JBL ever got or ever will receive. Don't get me started on Frank Dux or George Dillman and his "knockouts". All frauds get their comeuppance on MT! Now, the post that I quoted from you above is more than likely the point that you were trying to get across from the start. I share your sentiment in wishing that the dead horse would stop being kicked, too. So I will formally request for the mods to lock this thread because, well, it has been discussed (I.E. beat to death :lol
in countless other threads. It is nice to see your temper has cooled down and I hope that you have more positive experiences on MT :cheers:.
Well ... to be fair ... this thread was started three months ago and the topic of DJN Lee has been dropped down on the threadlist. The thread reactivated in mid-April and it was Your post, Mystic Warrior, that revived the thread again here in May.
Some people are just finding out about some things and may start new threads about their new discoveries. For instance, I'm sure there will be a white belt or two who will join the board this year and start asking those questions we've already read the answers to repeatedly. It would like expecting a white belt to know all about other arts, how they compare to the one they choose to begin training in, all the big names in Martial Arts, and have a complete index of all topics on all martial arts chat boards memorized.
I would advise folks to remember that every one of us will, from time to time, come into knowledge that is new and fresh to us yet *very* old hat to many other people.
Yes negativity becomes tiresome, however ... we'd all be better martial artists and better people if we set the example in our responses rather than chastising others for being petty ... neh?
Hwarang
:asian:
Some people are just finding out about some things and may start new threads about their new discoveries. For instance, I'm sure there will be a white belt or two who will join the board this year and start asking those questions we've already read the answers to repeatedly. It would like expecting a white belt to know all about other arts, how they compare to the one they choose to begin training in, all the big names in Martial Arts, and have a complete index of all topics on all martial arts chat boards memorized.
I would advise folks to remember that every one of us will, from time to time, come into knowledge that is new and fresh to us yet *very* old hat to many other people.
Yes negativity becomes tiresome, however ... we'd all be better martial artists and better people if we set the example in our responses rather than chastising others for being petty ... neh?
Hwarang
:asian:
SageGhost83
Brown Belt
No arguments here, let the thread roll on ! And let's try to control our tempers, people :rules:.
! And let's try to control our tempers, people :rules:.blitzsquirrel
White Belt
Howdy, all! I'm a lowly 21 year-old orange belt in Hwa Rang Do's "undergrad" program, Tae Soo Do. I thought maybe my thoughts could be of some interest.
I've never met Do Joo Nim. I've never met Chief Master Lee. I have, however, had the pleasure of training with various instructors in the midwest, and I'd be remiss to neglect mentioning Master David Kijek, head of the entire Midwest. Put simply, Master Kijek is a wonderful, tender, supportive, exemplary human being, and he would be even if he weren't a black sash. From the first moment I met him, he has been a wonderful teacher and a great mentor. He lives a full and complete life, inside the dojang and out, and for that I have tremendous respect toward him.
My training, albeit relatively short, has been an immensely positive and rewarding experience for me, through which I've gained friends, teachers, and learned a lot in only a few short months.
Ultimately, the point toward which I am driving is that a martial art like Hwa Rang Do is significantly more than any one or two people, and some questionable dates or testimonials (which I make no effort to dispute) do not render the art devoid of value and meaning. Yes, the historical foundation is important, but "what was" is no more important than "what is," and in the present, Hwa Rang Do is a wonderful thing, in my observation and experience.
The group is composed of people, from diverse backgrounds and unique personal histories. We make up the art, not Suahm Dosa OR the ancient Hwarang knights.
Them's my thoughts. Let me reiterate that I am NOT refuting any previously stated assertions or arguments, but rather sharing my opinion on an important side of the issue that doesn't seem to be brought up much.
I've never met Do Joo Nim. I've never met Chief Master Lee. I have, however, had the pleasure of training with various instructors in the midwest, and I'd be remiss to neglect mentioning Master David Kijek, head of the entire Midwest. Put simply, Master Kijek is a wonderful, tender, supportive, exemplary human being, and he would be even if he weren't a black sash. From the first moment I met him, he has been a wonderful teacher and a great mentor. He lives a full and complete life, inside the dojang and out, and for that I have tremendous respect toward him.
My training, albeit relatively short, has been an immensely positive and rewarding experience for me, through which I've gained friends, teachers, and learned a lot in only a few short months.
Ultimately, the point toward which I am driving is that a martial art like Hwa Rang Do is significantly more than any one or two people, and some questionable dates or testimonials (which I make no effort to dispute) do not render the art devoid of value and meaning. Yes, the historical foundation is important, but "what was" is no more important than "what is," and in the present, Hwa Rang Do is a wonderful thing, in my observation and experience.
The group is composed of people, from diverse backgrounds and unique personal histories. We make up the art, not Suahm Dosa OR the ancient Hwarang knights.
Them's my thoughts. Let me reiterate that I am NOT refuting any previously stated assertions or arguments, but rather sharing my opinion on an important side of the issue that doesn't seem to be brought up much.
I find it curious that the Hwa Rang Do organization would name their color belt curriculum after one of the older names for Taekwondo, after it switched from Tang Soo Do but before Taekwondo became fully accepted. Especially since Hwa Rang Do and Tae Soo Do had nothing to do with each other.
SageGhost83
Brown Belt
Well, yes. I think that everybody has made it clear that Hwarangdo is an awesome martial art and that Joo Bang Lee, while less than truthful, is an outstanding martial artist who many of us, including myself, would love to train with and learn from. The point being discussed was the less than truthful claims he made regarding the history of his art, and some not so scrupulous business practices of his. Other than that, both the man and the art are okay in my book.
But isn't truthfulness and integrity part of being an outstanding martial artist? Physical ability aside, if you're less than truthful (i.e. lying) about your background and/or business practices, does that not cast doubt upon everything else you do? I don't care how (supposedly) good you are. If I can't trust you to be honest about your background and business practices, I can't trust you for anything else.
And yes, lots of Taekwondo instructors have lied about their background and credentials. It isn't any better when they do it.
And yes, lots of Taekwondo instructors have lied about their background and credentials. It isn't any better when they do it.
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
The qualities of heart and Purpose are what seperate a warrior from a soldier. Expressed through the sword, whether that sword is made of steel, or tempered flesh and will.
Until we know the heart and purpose of the men and women directly involved, we cannot know if they are true warriors fighting for the depth of their truest beliefs, or merely mercenaries trading skill for a paycheck...instead of time in a purpose.
Best Regards,
Dave
Until we know the heart and purpose of the men and women directly involved, we cannot know if they are true warriors fighting for the depth of their truest beliefs, or merely mercenaries trading skill for a paycheck...instead of time in a purpose.
Best Regards,
Dave
I know everyone wants this. They want the teachers to be magical monks. At the same time look at who does or especially used to do martial arts. The pioneers were folks growing up in a horrible time and training to fight. There schools and styles were about survivol. The ROK were about mean killing machines. These were tough guys. When I grew up TKD was not the fun after school sport it was what those of us that were willing to train hard at being better fighters did.
Now through all the training we became better people and tried our best. But understand that people are human and want respect and pride. If you come from nothing you want to grow and create a better life.
Everyone has white lies and sometimes they grow and become elephants.
The main thing is are they good...is their system good and are their students good.
Smile at the rest.
Now through all the training we became better people and tried our best. But understand that people are human and want respect and pride. If you come from nothing you want to grow and create a better life.
Everyone has white lies and sometimes they grow and become elephants.
The main thing is are they good...is their system good and are their students good.
Smile at the rest.
SageGhost83
Brown Belt
Good point, YM! I guess I am really saying that he is a very skillful practitioner and he is very proficient in the physical aspect of his craft when I say "outstanding martial artist". That is a very narrow way of looking at it on my part :whip:. My apologies. He is lacking that moral aspect in that he would openly lie, then deny it, then openly lie again, only to get caught in the end. TKD instructors do lie, however, a good many of them have excellent skill and can impart it to their students, and they didn't invent their own style and willingly give it a false history. I agree with you though - good character is part of being the total martial artist and unfortunately JBL is lacking in that department, at least on the strength of his major gaffes. Strictly in skill though, I wouldn't mind getting together with him and getting in a good workout with him. I will call shenanigans on his falsehoods, though :boing2:.
Attention all users:
Due to topic drift, posts following this one were split to their own thread, titled Training in the Korean Army, as it was felt that this topic deserved its own thread.
Please return to the topic of this thread for the remainder of the discussion, or visit the split thread to continue the discussion there.
Karen Cohn
MT Senior Moderator
Due to topic drift, posts following this one were split to their own thread, titled Training in the Korean Army, as it was felt that this topic deserved its own thread.
Please return to the topic of this thread for the remainder of the discussion, or visit the split thread to continue the discussion there.
Karen Cohn
MT Senior Moderator
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