Joint Locks and Pressure Points

[Drac]

I include them. Not every situation requires a higher level of brutality. I am not saying that joint locks and pressure points are not brutal, but having the option to refrain from striking another person is an essential tool. You run LESS risk of permantly damaging somebody with a joint lock or pressure point than with a strike

Good point...In the good old days of law enforcement a punch or a kick was acceptable for almost any situation..As technology advanced cops found themselves under more scrutiny..Joint locks and pressure ponts if caught on camera don't look bad..

 

[Kwan Jang]

I like both as options in my tool box. They give me options for stun and run, as well as for control so that I don't need to move up the ladder of force. Legal defense is an important consideration; You may think those six guys with the AK-47's are scary? You should see their lawyers. LOL.

In all seriousness, one poster did raise a good point about complex movements/fine motor skills being compromised under adrenal stress. This is why when I teach these skills in a tactical class, I stick to techniques that use movements that are already ingrained in peoples' muscle memory since they resemble common movements.

With my martial art students, though I do introduce these at lower levels, I put a higher emphasis on them at advanced levels. I teach more kickboxing-ish skills first, then progress to submission grappling. With my advanced (healthy) students, I move them on to NHB on one end of the spectrum and kyusho/tuite and SCJJ on the other. I feel this syntax in the cirriculum gives them a strong base that they can really use with confidence and competence fairly quickly and build their options from there.

 

[Keikai]

I used to think Locks were great to control the opponent, but I also (of course I have never been locked by a Master, and that might make a difference) found out that with the right movement it is easy to get out of joint locks, standing up not grappling, and most of them I can even turn the situation to my favour. I managed to get out of several joint locks and send the opponent to his butt or turned it into a joint lock into my favour.
The joint lock that I found most effective on me is the ones where I end up with a wrist bent and the arm bent behind my back or finger locks (I hate the latter, they so painful that paralize you).

Part fo the definition that we use for a lock is that there is no escape. The only time it is possible to escape from a lock is 1) While in the process of putting the lock on the attacker is not unbalanced and so can resist. 2) The lock is not being applied correctly. A well applied lock will result in leeway for escape.

Our system trains a full grading on a person resisting applied locks and the defender is then required to re-unbalance the attacker and apply a new lock. We have nine (9) basic arm and wrist locks and you must be able to change from one to the other against a resisting attacker. At times two or three changes are necessary. The same same is done for locks to throws, throws to locks and throws to throws. Things don't always go as planned so you need to develop the skills to adapt to the new situation is our philosophy.

In my opinion if you do a joint lock leave always an option open to strike your opponent at every single movement he/she might do.

As I have outlined above why limit yourself to just a strike? That is just one tool to use against resisting attacker.

As for pressure points. Some are useful, particuarly when grabbed or held. Some work well IF you manage to hit the right spot in the right way. As the exact position and effect is different for everyone I wor one would never rely on pressure points to defend myself.

Greg Palmer

Tsutsumi Ryu Ju Jutsu

 

[pstarr]

They're an absolute must. The "no touch" stuff is just so much grabage, but the real thing is priceless.

 

[exile]

You may think those six guys with the AK-47's are scary? You should see their lawyers. LOL.

That quotation is an Instant Classic, IMHO!

 

[The Kidd]

Hey Charyuop glad I made you smile, I work in an alternative school when you have a bunch of gang members wanting to kill each other all the time having a presence can calm things down a great deal.

 

[Explorer]

I like to apply them as the attacker reaches out to grab or push ... so he can steady me for his ballistic assault. Heck, I LET 'em grab me ... it just one more thing that won't be flying at my head or nether regions!

I use the pressure points on the arm, torso and legs to move the attackers body into a position from which I can throw him. After that I clear the danger zone.

 

[Drac]

I like to apply them as the attacker reaches out to grab or push ... so he can steady me for his ballistic assault. Heck, I LET 'em grab me

As Grandmaster Pellegrini of the Combat Hapkido Federation says "He just gave you something to play with"...Like you I use it OFTEN...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

As Grandmaster Pellegrini of the Combat Hapkido Federation says "He just gave you something to play with"...Like you I use it OFTEN...

Yes, if they are going to give you something to work with then it would almost be criminal not to oblige their request. Myself I am just trying to be neighborly at that point.:rofl:

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Yes, if they are going to give you something to work with then it would almost be criminal not to oblige their request. Myself I am just trying to be neighborly at that point.:rofl:

I've even had my wrist grabbed on a couple of ocassions. Talk about wristlocks 101!

 

[Bigshadow]

As Grandmaster Pellegrini of the Combat Hapkido Federation says "He just gave you something to play with"...Like you I use it OFTEN...

HAHAHA Exactly! People always seem to give things to play with. Like Brian said, it is almost criminal not to be polite and accept the gift.

One thing people always seem to give away are fingers! Also, they always seem to find them most painful! :EG:

 

[Drac]

HAHAHA Exactly! People always seem to give things to play with. Like Brian said, it is almost criminal not to be polite and accept the gift.

One thing people always seem to give away are fingers! Also, they always seem to find them most painful! :EG:

LOL...Yes, fingers are a lot of fun to "play with"

 

[crushing]

As Grandmaster Pellegrini of the Combat Hapkido Federation says "He just gave you something to play with"...Like you I use it OFTEN...

Haha. My teacher says the same thing. He likely picked it up from Mr. P. Those tend to be the days we have to shake the arms out a little more and I think about getting the ice packs out of the freezer.

 

[Drac]

Haha. My teacher says the same thing. He likely picked it up from Mr. P. Those tend to be the days we have to shake the arms out a little more and I think about getting the ice packs out of the freezer.

Having been the Uke for GMP a number of times I must agree..

 

[Xue Sheng]

On the subject of fingers, I have told many a person I do not care how much weight they can lift, I bet their little finger bends easy.

I once was doing push hands with someone that I would call both a Tai Chi and Qinna master. WOW!!! talk about cotton covered steal that very quickly went into a pressure point that ended as a joint lock.... By the way I was the pressure pointed and the joint locked. It was incredibly painful and yet so very impressive.

 

[searcher]

On the finger subject, we must remember that God gave each of us 10 to break. If you break 1 or 2 of a persons fingers there are still more to "play with."

 

[Loaded Luke]

Are these things that you include into your training? Do you feel that they're worth knowing or do you feel that they're more of a waste of time?

Used to train them. Don't anymore.

 

[Loaded Luke]

On the finger subject, we must remember that God gave each of us 10 to break. If you break 1 or 2 of a persons fingers there are still more to "play with."

lol! I remember when I was grappling with this kid n he tried to submit me by extending my fingers. Was quite humerous. Was grappling with someone friday n he tried to get he in a wristlock submission (the bugger got it locked on as well) but it didnt do much, just only made me angry n I slammed him down n choked him.

 

[MJS]

Mike---like Brian, Drac and others, I definitely train these, as implicit parts of the TKD poomsae I do. I usually see in a `down block', for example, a wrist grab with the retracting, `chambering' hand and an arm lock, with pressure on the elbow from the forearm moving up to `chamber' the down motion, forcing the attack closer and lower and setting up the arm/neck/throat strike that the down block really represents. The joint locks are crucial I think to most effective techniques recorded in the hyungs/kata of karate-rooted MAs.

My appologies for not responding to this thread a bit sooner.

Yes, I agree. Its amazing how many locks, pressure point hits there are in forms. Of course, sometimes people don't see this because they don't understand the kata. Personally, whenever I teach a kata, I always like to give at least one other example, aside from the basic movement, of an application.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Good point...In the good old days of law enforcement a punch or a kick was acceptable for almost any situation..As technology advanced cops found themselves under more scrutiny..Joint locks and pressure ponts if caught on camera don't look bad..

I couldn't agree more. Cruiser mounted cameras, as well as the ones that are used by the bystanders, could make or break the officer. Sure the bad guy is gonna be in some pain, but at least he won't have a bruise from a strike.

Mike