Joe Rogans Accomplishments and USTU/USTA events?

[Orange Lightning]

Large amount of exageration here. There are literaly hundred, if not thousands of active teachers in the world who in all likelyhood spent more classroom time with General Choi than JH Kim.

Compared to whole world, a "few" could be interpreted as hundreds or thousands couldn't it? Not really, compared to other "handful" examples like this.
Fortunately, they don't specify any range of numbers, so they can't technically be wrong. Even if it could potentially be shameless promoting.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Georges St Pierre: Joe Rogan has the best spinning back kick he's ever seen

Maybe he needs to get out more?

I would like to see any random black belt from a TKD school kick that fast, technical, and hard at the same time.

I see it quite often.

Random black belts might have less than great form. Joe has less than great form. Not bad, just less than great.

His back kick had a little too much spin to it, ore like a spinning side kick than a back kick.

 

[Gnarlie]

I would take his suboptimal form everyday of the week for that power upon impact. And my roundhouses are among the hardest in my club. I actually go Muay Thai style with them against mitts, and disregard form (intentionally).

Pfft. That suboptimal form is telegraphed in such a way that it can be pretty easily evaded, and the clumsy off balance landing post kick is an open invitation. Kick as hard as you like, it means nothing if you can't hit the opponent and less if you get kicked in the face while floundering afterwards.

Additionally, you choose to ignore your instructor and use a MT style kick because you think you know better than an 8th dan. That poor form practice will cost you in the long term. Your kicks will be slow and your recovery too.

And at yellow belt too. A full cup if I ever saw one.

Proper form is important for power, for all styles

The longer you train the more youll realize that.

Well put.

There are people with excellent form who don't even come close to his power, and then there are some that do. If it were a forced choice and I had to pick his power or perfect form, then I would take the former, easily. That's what I meant.

There are people with excellent form who generate way more power and speed than this. I see them every day. I'm talking about people like the ones Joe learned these kicks from. As I said earlier, choose your role models carefully.

These are also people who consciously trade off power against form to avoid telegraphing.

I generate similar impact with about two thirds his body weight. I would expect much more from such a heavy set guy.

Maybe he needs to get out more?



I see it quite often.



His back kick had a little too much spin to it, ore like a spinning side kick than a back kick.

Well put.

 

[Laplace_demon]

There are people with excellent form who generate way more power and speed than this. I see them every day. I'm talking about people like the ones Joe learned these kicks from. As I said earlier, choose your role models carefully.

These are also people who consciously trade off power against form to avoid telegraphing.

You are contradicting yourself with the two statements cited. It's very dangerous to kick with compromised power IMO. There are TKD fighters who won't do any damage, yet posses beautiful kicking abilities. I don't concider them effective fighters. It may very well be that Joe is not a great fighter. There are, after all, lots of factors that go into it that have nothing to do with strikes and kicks.

 

[Gnarlie]

You are contradicting yourself with the two statements cited. It's very dangerous to kick with compromised power IMO. There are TKD fighters who won't do any damage, yet posses beautiful kicking abilities. I don't concider them effective fighters. It may very well be that Joe is not a great fighter. There are, after all, lots of factors that go into it that have nothing to do with strikes and kicks.

I mean they trade off a little of their potential power to eliminate telegraphing, and even then the final product is more powerful than the kicks in that video.

Every kick is a compromise of power and balance. Otherwise you overcommit and get trounced in the recovery phase. Clearly you are early on your journey, these are pretty basic ideas.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Large amount of exageration here. There are literaly hundred, if not thousands of active teachers in the world who in all likelyhood spent more classroom time with General Choi than JH Kim.

How do you know how much training JH Kim received?

Topic: How do you rate Rogan, based on the video I posted?

 

[Drose427]

You are contradicting yourself with the two statements cited. It's very dangerous to kick with compromised power IMO. There are TKD fighters who won't do any damage, yet posses beautiful kicking abilities. I don't concider them effective fighters. It may very well be that Joe is not a great fighter. There are, after all, lots of factors that go into it that have nothing to do with strikes and kicks.

And many times, the TKD guy with beautiful technique is pulling kicks to not hurt his sparring partner. Its a simple matter of not going through the target. Its nearly completely the choice of the kicker.

 

[Gnarlie]

Especially noticeable in that video is the late timing of the 360 roundhouse. By the time he kicks, he is already out of the power phase of the spin, leading to a loss of power, a wasted spin, and a more telegraphed, slower motion.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Especially noticeable in that video is the late timing of the 360 roundhouse. By the time he kicks, he is already out of the power phase of the spin, leading to a loss of power, a wasted spin, and a more telegraphed, slower motion.

Agreed. His tornado was not particularly impressive. I don't think he's trained it much since his TKD days, though.

 

[Earl Weiss]

↑
Large amount of exageration here. There are literaly hundred, if not thousands of active teachers in the world who in all likelyhood spent more classroom time with General Choi than JH Kim.

Compared to whole world, a "few" could be interpreted as hundreds or thousands couldn't it? Not really, compared to other "handful" examples like this.
Fortunately, they don't specify any range of numbers, so they can't technically be wrong. Even if it could potentially be shameless promoting.

This hits a nerve with me. Certainly "Handful" is a metaphor because you can't hold any people in your hand. I just hate it when instructors claim to have been taught by General Choi for marketing purposes yet would not see him during the last decades of his life, and in reality the instruction they received from him was nominal compared to thousands who trained under him during instructor courses throughout the world in thelate 1980's throught 2002.

So you are validating my comment? "Large exageration".

No technical issues. "Handful denotes a small number"

handful - definition of handful by The Free Dictionary

 

[Laplace_demon]

↑
I just hate it when instructors claim to have been taught by General Choi for marketing purposes yet would not see him during the last decades of his life, and in reality the instruction they received from him was nominal compared to thousands who trained under him during instructor courses throughout the world in thelate 1980's throught 2002.

How is it relevant if they did not see him during the last decades of his life? You have yet to respond how you are in a position to speak of how much training GM Kim received. Do you know GM Kim?

 

[Earl Weiss]

How do you know how much training JH Kim received?

Topic: How do you rate Rogan, based on the video I posted?

I know how much time General Choi instructing Pioneers prior to 1978. Very Little compared to when he started doing instructor courses in the late 1980's. Further, as time progressed General Choi was able to spend more time with refinements and less on major issues. (Saw this myself at courses from 1990-2002.) People who competed on a world wide stage would often comment on how there was a remarkeable conformity to technical standards throughout the world during this time.

FWIW I have been on the training floor with such Piioneers as Nam Tae Hi (Hosted him) Han Cha Kyo, (At one of his schools) and Jong Soo Park. All had lots to offer. However, claiming that they were conveying pattern knowledge as thjey were taught by general Choi was not one of them.

There is another instructor in Chicago teaching here since the 1960's and was the US importer for the 1965 book. He actulay came to see General Choi when he was here. He later invited me to his school to teach patterns.

I like Joe Rogan's technique. I think it unfair to look at how someone kicks a bag and say "they telegraph" or whatever. Frankly, I do not know how he would spar. I do know I kick the bag different ways depending on what I am trying to develop. For instance I will neglect defensive posturing and not care about hand positions if I am working on power techniques for breaking. I may negelct power if working on hand positions and follow ups for sparring. etc. In fact I often teach that you should concentrate on different elements at different times and then conbine that focus for different applications as needed. Boxers aren't criticised for hitting a speed bag or heavy bag in a manner different than they spar, so I don't know why a martial artist shoucl face such criticism.

 

[Earl Weiss]

How is it relevant if they did not see him during the last decades of his life? You have yet to respond how you are in a position to speak of how much training GM Kim received. Do you know GM Kim?

It's relevant becuase they would refuse to see him yet still use his name for PR.

If they wanted to claim instruction it would have been a simple matter for them to attend official courses.

Keep in mind:
A. You're time is 7 hours ahead of me; and
B. I may not be sitting at the keyboard waiting to respond to your posts.

 

[Earl Weiss]

From GM Kims website:
. >>After a brief review of forms, General Choi invited Mr. Kim to receive personal training from him, from then on. This was the greatest honor for a Taekwon-do practitioner, as General Choi taught only a handful of instructors in his home. Mr. Kim visited General Choi periodically to receive personal instruction, until 1978<<

So. perhaps the better full quote would have been: >>>General Choi taught only a handful of instructors in his home.<<<

Further, I have trained with at least 2 instructors who trained with General Choi in his home. As described to me those sessions were usualy somewhat brief. To GM Kim's credit, from the site is his association with GM Park Jung Tae (The full extent of which is not known from the site.) That GM Park was the instructor who General Choi chose to teach IICs before him and who was dispatched to train the North Koreans. GM Kim certainly could have learned a lot from him.

 

[Gnarlie]

I like Joe Rogan's technique. I think it unfair to look at how someone kicks a bag and say "they telegraph" or whatever. Frankly, I do not know how he would spar. I do know I kick the bag different ways depending on what I am trying to develop. For instance I will neglect defensive posturing and not care about hand positions if I am working on power techniques for breaking. I may negelct power if working on hand positions and follow ups for sparring. etc. In fact I often teach that you should concentrate on different elements at different times and then conbine that focus for different applications as needed. Boxers aren't criticised for hitting a speed bag or heavy bag in a manner different than they spar, so I don't know why a martial artist shoucl face such criticism.

I agree, I am only offering this critical view as that video was being held up as some kind of particularly great example, which I don't think it is, whichever discipline is being trained for. There's nothing exceptional there, was my point, and that Laplace wasn't seeing it that way.

 

[TrueJim]

This is slightly off-topic, but since we're talking about kicking power, I thought I'd point to this video...most of you have probably seen it already though.

There are some fairly obvious inaccuracies in the video (Simon Rhee? Representing karate?) but I think it's still entertaining to watch.

 

[Steve]

And many times, the TKD guy with beautiful technique is pulling kicks to not hurt his sparring partner. Its a simple matter of not going through the target. Its nearly completely the choice of the kicker.

I don't know good technique from bad, but this sparked a memory. Back in the olympics a few times ago... not sure which one, but I suspect you guys will remember. There was a TKD guy who got mad. He was really hot with the ref about a bad call and ended up roundhouse kicking him in the head. What struck me as funny at the time is that he didn't seem to hurt the ref at all. I mean, this was a clean kick to the side of the ref's head. It really seemed that this elite level TKD guy was so accustomed to pulling his kicks that he was unable to kick with any power. It really seemed at the time like he had trained himself to kick WITHOUT power.

Edit: This guy: http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/judo/news/story?id=3549903

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't know good technique from bad, but this sparked a memory. Back in the olympics a few times ago... not sure which one, but I suspect you guys will remember. There was a TKD guy who got mad. He was really hot with the ref about a bad call and ended up roundhouse kicking him in the head. What struck me as funny at the time is that he didn't seem to hurt the ref at all. I mean, this was a clean kick to the side of the ref's head. It really seemed that this elite level TKD guy was so accustomed to pulling his kicks that he was unable to kick with any power. It really seemed at the time like he had trained himself to kick WITHOUT power.

Edit: This guy: http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/judo/news/story?id=3549903

It was a front leg kick, which will always have less power than a rear leg. Think of it as a jab. How many people have you seen knocked out with a single jab?
The ref was staggered, and did require stitches, so it wasn't exactly a love tap.

 

[Gnarlie]

It was a front leg kick, which will always have less power than a rear leg. Think of it as a jab. How many people have you seen knocked out with a single jab?
The ref was staggered, and did require stitches, so it wasn't exactly a love tap.

Also, he was the representative of Cuba. Elite level in Cuba may mean something different to elite level in Europe and the USA. Nothing against Cuba, but they probably don't have the same funding and training programs as the bigger countries. Or the same talent pool. It was not a great kick, it was thrown in a moment of emotion, and it was certainly not fitting behaviour for an Olympic representative, especially not a Taekwondoin. Currently residing in the 'where are they now' file.

 

[Steve]

Yeah, okay guys. I don't know. He was winning the match up to that point, so he couldn't be that bad. I can't watch the video right now, but my memory is that it didn't even look like it hurt the ref at all. I don't recall anyone being staggered. I do reacll that he was surprised and shocked. But not hurt. It was a kick to the head. A jab by an olympic boxer would probably hurt like hell, whether it knocks you out or not. I just remember my immediate reaction, in real time, was thinking how funny it was that this guy couldn't even kick with intent when he was acting on pure, aggressive emotion. It's an object lesson that we will truly fight how we train.

Regarding stitches, that doesn't mean much to me. Who hasn't had a few stitches from some stupid, meaningless cut? Particularly a busted lip.