Joe Rogans Accomplishments and USTU/USTA events?
- Thread starter Drose427
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Laplace_demon
Black Belt
No, he asserted that TKD has the best spinning back kicks. It wasn't "reported". Yeah, he's a mxed martial artist, meaning that he has cross trained in many different martial arts and has seen aloth. Hint*
I don't know what she's talking about and how it relates to the discussion. Am not even a Joe Rogan fan. I never watch his shows. The karate girl can't understand that I form unbiased opinions. I do it all the time. My evaluations aren't based on wheter someone likes or dislikes me and my martial art style.
No GSP gave his singular opinion.
Again, put in the work and youll see a myriad of karate back kicks on the same caliber as Joes.
And your opinions arent really based in fact either......
the reason you look like a die hard Joe fan is that youve spend 16 pages thinking he is something he is not and have shut your eyes and ignired anyone whose said otherwise like a child. Which as tez explained, is exacty what joes fans did to her fighter.
Who are you talking to because as sure as heck it isn't me. I'm most certainly not a 'girl' roflmao but thanks for the compliment.
Your opinions are so far from being unbiased as it's possible to get, you come over like a Rogan fan-atic. Your opinions aren't even consistent. You haven't evaluated anything at all. It might be interesting if you do.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Dude, you're doing the same thing. Please don't think I'm taking one side or the other here. And I don't believe for a second that you're unbiased.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
I'm just going to hark back to that original video and restate what GSP actually said:
He went to see JR because JR used to be a (local level) Taekwondo champion. He said that Taekwondo as a style has the best spinning back kick, and that he asked JR for advice on his form and got some corrections. He also said that JR had the best spinning back kick that GSP had seen in his life, and if JR hits someone with that kick, they are 100% going down.
Now here's my view. That clip is part of a UFC promo featuring Dana White, and there is a tendency within the UFC promo material to be rather sensationalist and to set up what people are going to say beforehand. Watch a series of TUF and this becomes obvious pretty quickly. So I think some of the hyperbole GSP is using is to sort of fit that sensationalist dynamic.
Secondly, I think GSP is applying a rule of respecting other arts and artists when he says Taekwondo has the best spinning back kicks and JR has the best back kick he has seen in his life. That's something we do in martial arts, you will come to learn. It is a form of courtesy. It may or may not mean what is said is actually true. There's also the factor of when outside an art looking in, it is easy to be dazzled by even mediocre levels of skill.
Thirdly, and bear in mind that I hold a higher Kukkiwon Taekwondo rank than JR when I say this: GSP could have gone to any reasonably high ranking Kukkiwon instructor with competition experience and gotten just the same tips he got. There is nothing exceptional about JR's back side kick. It is standard, no more, no less. As I pointed out earlier, there are a number of telegraph motions and post kick balance issues, but I do accept that those may not be what he is focusing on when kicking a bag.
As regards unbiased opinions, consider this: I have nothing to gain here by offering observations on JR's form. Nor do I have anything to gain from discussing the issue with someone whose cup is clearly full. The only reason I am here is because the truth is the truth.
He went to see JR because JR used to be a (local level) Taekwondo champion. He said that Taekwondo as a style has the best spinning back kick, and that he asked JR for advice on his form and got some corrections. He also said that JR had the best spinning back kick that GSP had seen in his life, and if JR hits someone with that kick, they are 100% going down.
Now here's my view. That clip is part of a UFC promo featuring Dana White, and there is a tendency within the UFC promo material to be rather sensationalist and to set up what people are going to say beforehand. Watch a series of TUF and this becomes obvious pretty quickly. So I think some of the hyperbole GSP is using is to sort of fit that sensationalist dynamic.
Secondly, I think GSP is applying a rule of respecting other arts and artists when he says Taekwondo has the best spinning back kicks and JR has the best back kick he has seen in his life. That's something we do in martial arts, you will come to learn. It is a form of courtesy. It may or may not mean what is said is actually true. There's also the factor of when outside an art looking in, it is easy to be dazzled by even mediocre levels of skill.
Thirdly, and bear in mind that I hold a higher Kukkiwon Taekwondo rank than JR when I say this: GSP could have gone to any reasonably high ranking Kukkiwon instructor with competition experience and gotten just the same tips he got. There is nothing exceptional about JR's back side kick. It is standard, no more, no less. As I pointed out earlier, there are a number of telegraph motions and post kick balance issues, but I do accept that those may not be what he is focusing on when kicking a bag.
As regards unbiased opinions, consider this: I have nothing to gain here by offering observations on JR's form. Nor do I have anything to gain from discussing the issue with someone whose cup is clearly full. The only reason I am here is because the truth is the truth.
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Orange Lightning
Purple Belt
This isn't a discussion. Nothing is being "discussed". There is nothing being mulled over, explored, or exchanged in a meaningful way because you're blatantly disregarding and insulting people. It is being "argued" and entirely without the civility and respect from you that exists within a debate or discussion, so the same things are being repeated over and over. Basically, you have disagreements about the kicking quality of Joe Rogan and some styles. That disagreement has went on for 16 pages. You know you aren't going to change their opinion, and they aren't going to change yours. Why keep arguing on the subject?
"The karate girl can't understand that I form unbiased opinions" - Case in point. Disregarding everyone's opinion but your own is like the textbook definition of bias. The disrespect doesn't help your argument either.
I can't believe they're even still talking to you. If you want to be heard, do more listening. At the bare minimum, agree to disagree and leave it alone. Quit whacking the bee hive.
TrueJim
Master Black Belt
EXACTLY! We could be using this time to discuss more important celebrity questions, like...
...Jessica Alba vs. Willie Nelson in a taekwondo fight. Who would win?
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
EXACTLY! We could be using this time to discuss more important celebrity questions, like...
...Jessica Alba vs. Willie Nelson in a taekwondo fight. Who would win?
Sure Willie has something to say about Old Age And Treachery overcoming youth and skill.
It would actually be an interesting match I think. Willie Nelson practices Gongkwon Yusul, holds a fifth dan. That art covers hand and foot striking, but also groundwork and grappling.
Jessica Alba practices TKD but is to my knowledge not the holder of a dan rank.
But, even with the rules restricted to suit Alba, my money would be on Nelson, due to his greater experience.
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I've not heard of that before, I'll have to look it up when I come back from lunch with my son. Always good to learn something new I find!
TrueJim
Master Black Belt
This reference ( 50 Celebrities Who Train a Form of Martial Arts Bleacher Report ) is dated 2012 and says Alba does taekwondo, but this article ( Beautiful But Deadly 3 - TV and Movie Actresses Who Could Hurt You ) is dated from last December and says she trained Tae Bo under Billy Banks.
Hmmm....this is a tough call. If Alba really has been training for 3-4 years at least, then she should have picked up some skills by now, no? Also, Alba is going to have youth on her side. Plus, some people claim that Nelson smokes (I know! Right? I'm as shocked as you are) so his lungs probably aren't what they could be.
I'm going to pick Alba on this one.
Hmmm....this is a tough call. If Alba really has been training for 3-4 years at least, then she should have picked up some skills by now, no? Also, Alba is going to have youth on her side. Plus, some people claim that Nelson smokes (I know! Right? I'm as shocked as you are) so his lungs probably aren't what they could be.
I'm going to pick Alba on this one.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Irrelevant to the argument,
But very pertinent for the OP,
When looking into Rogan to see his rank in BJJ and how long hes been involved in MT i noticed his TKD achievements where tagged as Disputed.
For those who dont know, disputed annontations mean multiple people(i believe wikipedia said minimum of 5 on their disputed annotations explanation page) have come forward and labelled information as dubious or innaccurate.
Isnt as black/white as results would be (gonna keep digging) but since the disputed link is simply Rogan boasting on his personal website it just looks even fishier
I know i should get so wrapped up in it haha but its frustrating finding so little about it, and i feel his commitment to other MA's warrants the benefit of the doubt
But very pertinent for the OP,
When looking into Rogan to see his rank in BJJ and how long hes been involved in MT i noticed his TKD achievements where tagged as Disputed.
For those who dont know, disputed annontations mean multiple people(i believe wikipedia said minimum of 5 on their disputed annotations explanation page) have come forward and labelled information as dubious or innaccurate.
Isnt as black/white as results would be (gonna keep digging) but since the disputed link is simply Rogan boasting on his personal website it just looks even fishier
I know i should get so wrapped up in it haha but its frustrating finding so little about it, and i feel his commitment to other MA's warrants the benefit of the doubt
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Joe Rogan was Massachussets TKD champ for four years. Here he is winning the U.S. Cup in 1987
Due to the nature of Wikipedia it would be difficult to determine if the disputed annotations were or weren't legitimate.
The issue is near all the details hes personally given dont line up with how the Nationals are/were conducted.
I believe even the weight classes were off, but i dont now when Sport TKD took on the fly, bantam, etc. Over the old light, middle, heavy.
Aside from the grandchampion and fighting outside weightclasses bit(which ive never heard of at an USTU/USAT/*insert national Governing body event, not saying its impossible however) the details make it seem like a minor associatons tournament.
Our associations annual tournament is called the U.S. Open. Saying you won a U.S. Open is not the same as winning THE Usat(formerly Ustu or aau) Open, or make you a state or national champion. If i win Grand Champion next year in BB division, that doesnt make me the WV TKD state champ.
Theres an un-official compilation website of records and major event winners and Pan Am, Ustu, and Aau all through the 80s nationals were won by other people, but Keyword Unofficial
Another issue is other THAT video, which cant definitively be contributed to a specific event outside of what joe claims, is the only real documentation if him and TKD.
Nobody, even those who were active and involved with Sport TKD at the time that ive spoken with, seems to remember him at all. Even spending hours online whereoithers have tried to find more info, the closest youll find is on another forum one poster saying he knows a guy who claims to have trained with joe, and said Joe kicked hard.
Theres just A LOT of skethciness and conflicting information from what hes described. Thats part of why I've tried so hard to find a definitive answer or at the very least outside anecdotes, and part of why it bugs me.
I dont like leaving questions unanswered
Basically haha and the struggle of curioisty continues!
Shame you don't know more about your sport's history-the USTU/USAT came out of US Amateur Athletic Union Tae Kwon Do, and I believe it's there that you'll see him winning championships.
It's only "sketchy" when you consider that it was preUSTU, preinternet, and, likely, pre when you were born.....I mean, that's 28 years ago, fella....
AAU Taekwondo Home
Again, you cant cling to video like its blatantly AAU Nationals. Theres not a single thing hinting towards that...
Ive also never heard of AAU even having the Grand Championship Role, even in the 80-90s, as an idicator of beating the other BB champions.
Even if it did, even in the 80's there were STILL more weight classes than what hes describing. If GC is supposedly earned by beating the other weight classes, howd he get the crown for only fighting in 3 of 8?
Now, AAU has team point sparring now with light, middle, heavy, but past or present have fun trying to find an overall AAU GC as opposed weight class champ.
In 1987, Nationals had official USTU nationals, Doug Baker took silver in featherweifgt that year.
As for the pre-internet part, if you look, you can fairly easily find national championship records predating even 1987, for dang near every association you can think of. So yeah, it is pretty sketchy that Joes a "National Champion" nobodys heard of or even remembers ever competing at that level. When someone competes or accomplishes something at that level, there tends to be some form of records or at least outside corroboratting anecdotes. Its how we can still findout who won early world games, pan-ams, etc. If you look it isnt that hard. Youll find official/unofficial results, medals and pedestal pics, pics/viddo clips in general.
But with Joe, theres nothing other than one unverifable video clip and the exact words coming from his mouth that dont add up.
You are not a 'girl'. And Laplace is not a 'boy', as you imply in post #180. What is your trip?
