Laplace_demon
Black Belt
He may be a juiced up TKD basher, but whoever says this guy isn't good, don't know anything about kicking.
Joe Rogans Accomplishments and USTU/USTA events?
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Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Because we believe in the tenets of Taekwondo, and therefore encourage unity rather than separatism.
What has that got to do with the price of fish? Taekwondo is Taekwondo.
Not really, new students learn the KKW forms, transfers in continue to learn Tul or Hyungs alongside the KKW forms if they wish. Blackbelts learn both if they wish, or just the KKW forms. It's pretty straightforward really.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Laplace-demon, what's the difference between a softcore KKW school and a hardcore KKW school? And I realize this reads like the set up to a punchline, but it's a genuine question. I don't train in TKD and am having trouble understanding the emphasis you're placing on the term, "hardcore." What makes a school hardcore?
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Maybe someone observing less than great Taekwondo form there just sees a bit more than you do because they have a frame of reference worlds apart from your own.
Or maybe I do know nothing about kicking.
Both are possible. This is the interweb, after all.
Laplace_demon
Black Belt
I did not know that. How about techniques extracted outside of patterns, that is to say training in kicks and strikes. How does your school decide which style of TKD to adhere to and give instructions in? I know there is some dispute about this, but fairly experienced black belts in ITF would argue that KKW techniques are different, body mechanics included.
A hardcore school proclaims unique adherence to a specific style: "This is real TKD!" (yes I have heard it been said), disregard and rejects other styles in some way shape or form. The exact opposite of Gnarlies approach. I think hardcore attitudes are silly, but they do posses a certain charm. These schools all live in their own bubble, so to speak. I am far too intelligent to buy into any of it. There are pros and cons with every style/ system of TKD.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
We train the KKW mechanics, and where there are significant differences, they are accepted too - especially if they work well. Generally the KKW mechanic is preferred as we have a majority of KKW practitioners, and it's fairly easy to learn the Hyungs / Tul with the KKW mechanics. They are not that different in my view, but then again my first instructor's master began TKD before these orgs existed, so we have trained every mechanic going at some point.
Incidentally, there's not really such a thing as a hardcore KKW school in my experience - exclusion is at least not mandated by the Kukkiwon, quite the opposite, so if such claims are made then it is at the behest of the individual instructor, and probably BS.
Given that the KKW itself doesn't endorse any such attitude, but advocates inclusiveness, I don't know where you get the idea that someone espousing this idea is "hardcore KKW".
Laplace_demon
Black Belt
Georges St Pierre: Joe Rogan has the best spinning back kick he's ever seen
I wouldn't go that far, but Rogan is good, no question about it.
I would like to see any random black belt from a TKD school kick that fast, technical, and hard at the same time. Some of his kicks are clearly better than others.
Laplace_demon
Black Belt
I am reporting what certain school representatives say. What higher "officals" of the KKW ( I don't know what you mean by the KKW "itself" promotes is a different matter. I don't recall the KKW school I trained for ever mentioning the ITF, to be honest. But we basically trained and didn't chat with the instructors at all. To be clear, nobody has openly bashed the KKW in my ITF school (they actually refer to them all as WTF, which is incorrect). But that's not to say that they don't distinguish themselves from the KKW, they most certainly do.
Then you should cite who is saying what, you can't just make a random statement like that and expect it to be treated seriously.
Laplace_demon
Black Belt
Yes I can. This isn't court. I can most certainly cite people comments without giving out their names. If you don't believe it, then so be it. And I have already stated that it's childish. Even my own father has bashed Taekwon-do, and he was once among the very best in a Karate style. I hit him and asked him to block (if our blocks were so inferior) which offended him greatly. This stuff goes on.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Random black belts might have less than great form. Joe has less than great form. Not bad, just less than great. Choose your role models carefully, and maybe one day you might be able to see why, without having to rely on GSP to give you an opinion
Random black belts might have less than great form. Joe has less than great form. Not bad, just less than great. Choose your role models carefully, and maybe one day you might be able to see why, without having to rely on GSP to give you an opinion
Rogans roundhouse form is off too, but in fairness, thats probably from years of MT after leaving TKD
Well, in that case it won't be surprising if no one believes you will it? You won't have any credibility here either if you make statements without citations but if you don't want to be taken seriously...
If your father, a karateka, was style bashing then shame on him, it's not something to boast about. Hitting one's father is nothing to boast about either, no wonder he was offended.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Yeah, I only mean from a pure TKD perspective, he may well have consciously adapted his kicking for MMA.
Laplace_demon
Black Belt
I would take his suboptimal form everyday of the week for that power upon impact. And my roundhouses are among the hardest in my club. I actually go Muay Thai style with them against mitts, and disregard form (intentionally).
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Proper form is important for power, for all styles
The longer you train the more youll realize that.
Laplace_demon
Black Belt
There are people with excellent form who don't even come close to his power, and then there are some that do. If it were a forced choice and I had to pick his power or perfect form, then I would take the former, easily. That's what I meant.
Orange Lightning
Purple Belt
This certainly isn't court. You can say you heard such and such from some person or school or organization. But unless it's widely known fact, citing the real source would definitely be preferable. Especially when people disagree with you. Otherwise, it will be heard as your interpretation or paraphrase of what another entity said. It's a lot easier to debate with facts or the opinion's of entities that can be verified. If something is indeed fact, then it's beyond contestation. Most debate is concerning people's opinions about facts, and not what is or isn't fact. Your argument is way stronger when you can prove it or have cited sources. Particularly in the world of martial arts, there is a lot of misinformation followed by disagreement It further obfuscates the truth, and makes meaningful discussion more difficult. Honestly, if it isn't about something scientific, debating what is or isn't fact can usually be done away with research and sources.
You don't have to. But if you think something should be taken as fact, you should. Otherwise, you're assuming that someone else will take something you said as fact, or that they should, even though they are aware of the possibility that it may not be. You're doing a disservice to someone if you ask them to assume something you say is fact. It only creates a possibility for misinformation to occur. Not everything needs to be proven fact to make your point. Nor does everything need to be fact. But if you expect people to take it as fact, you should let the facts represent themselves.
Additionally, in the art of debate, I would also avoid using personal anecdotes as universal fact. It may be fact or popular opinion for you and people you know, but not everyone. You're asking for someone to disagree if you state something as an absolute, especially if it's opinion. This applies even if you're totally right about what you said. I think Joe Rogan has some awesome kicking too. But I'm not going to tell people they're wrong for saying otherwise. I am going to ask them to show me some better kicking, and why they don't think his kicking might be so great.
Another example is "childish". What you consider childish is bound to be different than other peoples' view.
Another thing you don't have to do, but would be great, is to be polite when you're debating. Even if the other person deserves to see some mud slewed at them, it keeps the debate cleaner and prevents more conversations from becoming pointless arguments where walls yell at each other. Especially on the internet, where you don't get people's expressions or voice inflection.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Large amount of exageration here. There are literaly hundred, if not thousands of active teachers in the world who in all likelyhood spent more classroom time with General Choi than JH Kim.
