Laplace_demon
Black Belt
I don't judge based on how he moves a bag. His technical level is phenomenal, and still way past his prime. Not the aerial kick though (obviously). I have George St Pierre on my side. I am certainly not alone.
Joe Rogans Accomplishments and USTU/USTA events?
- Thread starter Drose427
- Start date
I don't judge based on how he moves a bag. His technical level is phenomenal, and still way past his prime. Not the aerial kick though (obviously). I have George St Pierre on my side. I am certainly not alone.
His technical level is typcial of a BB...spend enough time actually training (or heck even on youtube i found instructional vids where instructors had equatable/better technique kicking at air or a partner. You can also find a myriad of heavy bag drills where guys are doing more damage do a bag with the same kicks. He has proper technique, but it isnt anything over the top.
You have a clip of GSP exaggerating/playing up joes ability in an interview when asked out of respect for joe working with him. You spend ANY amount of time in ANY MA and you see how insanely common it. if i had a nickel for everytime i heard an instrcutor tell a student "that was one of the bes or hardest (insert x kick) ive ever seen" id be rich. Many other MA's from many other styles would be as well.
Segals ability is CONSTANTLY under scrutiny in the MA world across many different style and venue, whos style has consistently been called "useless" in MMA by MMA fans, yet nearly every MMA fighter hes worked with spoke nothing but praise about him and his ability.
Its just the respectful thing to do. If Jimmy paints a mural on skids van for free and it isnt complete trash, skids gonna say, "its the best mural hes ever seen"
Forget MA, this happens all over life...
Heck, i just worked with a new MMA guy on striking, took it easy on him just to show him where his faults and when i tweeted him praise for a good sparring session, he said "i messed him up."
Laplace_demon
Black Belt
George St Pierre personally asked him to teach him the spinning back kick. This wasn't a publicity thing, him praising Rogan. And no, based on what I've seen, Benny Urquidez (Karate, TKD) is not superior from a technical standpoint in doing the spinning back kick. Bennys was brutal, though.
1. Nowhere in any video does GSP specifically ask Joe for help (that ive seen). According to the video of them togther, they were just at the gym and joe offered help. It isnt about publicity its about respect and gratefulness.
2. MMA fighters who actively compete will take help from anywhere or anyome they believe can offer it, my MMA buddies ask me regurlarly to help them with their striking.
3. He knocks the guy from the center of the ring to the corner with kodak moment technique.......praise Joe all you want, he never did either of those. Even with the guy kicking thats pretty big distance. His jump back pivot had immaculate technique.
the gingerninja doesnt even follow through all the way and was decent power and kodak moment form.
If you really think Joes technique was phenominal, you need to to train more
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Drose, you are right. Came back from teaching last night to see this absurd string of groundless claims continues.
I agree, Mr Rogans kicking technique is nothing special, especially for his grade. Apparently his hands were disappointing for his grade.
Taught one of my classes last night, had my 2nd and 1st Keups drill step back kick to a shield, and every one of them was creating similar impact, even the skinny guys. And that was without asking them to consciously focus on power.
I agree, Mr Rogans kicking technique is nothing special, especially for his grade. Apparently his hands were disappointing for his grade.
Taught one of my classes last night, had my 2nd and 1st Keups drill step back kick to a shield, and every one of them was creating similar impact, even the skinny guys. And that was without asking them to consciously focus on power.
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I can't imagine why GSP would need to have lessons from Rogan, he started at an early age in Kyokushin karate and still trains, I believe it's as you say.
Rogan has a great number of fanatical fans who believe he is the god of MMA, that everything he says or does is 'the word'. They will not have any criticism or disagreement of him pass without them trying to trash the speaker. A couple of years ago a friend of mine fought in the UFC here in London, she lost her fight, Rogan said something about her in commentary that she disagreed with and she sent a Tweet letting him know in a humorous manner that she didn't agree, Rogan accepted that but his fans, well they went wild sending her everything form nasty comments on her appearance to death and rape threats. It was quite horrible. It's no surprise to me that Laplace is so determined to prove his hero is the best kicker, best everything to the point he's ignoring the truth and getting shirty with other posters. Rogan fans are some of the most fanatical I've come across.
Not to mention its a kick GSP uses fairly regularly!
And id agree about rogans fans, i was explaining to a friend on twitter how Rogan was most likely not the national level competitior his website claims, how so few folks at that level/time seem to remember him competing, how his account doesnt line up (ive never heard of a grand champion outaide of local and traditional tournaments, not to mention official matches between all the weight divisions), how EVERY open martial arts tournament calls itself the US open, how theres an unofficial obline tkd hall of fame and hes never mentioned winning any national or state events in any org ( and this website lists my GM, who has a good lack of online presence but he was at one point on the olympic commitee)and the sketchiness of it all and i got flamed bad by from random woman i assume was monitoring tweets for the his name
Thats part of why i started this thread, to see if anyone here had anything new to offer. But again, its more cases of people who were around and kept up with it who dont recall him having achievements such as being a national champ
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
There is actually a video with JR and GSP where GSP asks if he can video JRs kick. Rewatching this and other cuts of the original video LD posted, it's evident that JR is demonstrating turn side kick, whereas GSP learned the knee down back kick variant as part of his Kyokushin education. Both versions of this kick exist in Taekwondo, both are capable of generating power. It is evident that GSP is in awe of either Rogan or the Taekwondo kick. Still, nothing special from a TKD perspective there.
Personally I find the knee down version (dwi chagi as opposed to momdollyo yop chagi) more powerful by quite some margin. It also doesn't funnel the typical counter dollyo chagi straight towards your balls, which as anyone with competition experience will tell you, the knee high version does.
Personally I find the knee down version (dwi chagi as opposed to momdollyo yop chagi) more powerful by quite some margin. It also doesn't funnel the typical counter dollyo chagi straight towards your balls, which as anyone with competition experience will tell you, the knee high version does.
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It seems to me GSP is excited and willing to add a new tech to his toolbox, like any MMa fighter would!
But thats a far cry from seeking Joe out or specifically asking for help. Even the full video looks like he was just taking casual help, not asking for instruction
By knee down do ypu the donkey style back kick?
Our back pivot (dwidollyo chagi) is the turn, high knee raise, side kick.
We dont personally do the donkey style kick, but i have seen it from other schools ans styles at tourneys
It's a thing that MMA fighters have I think, we watch everyone's techniques to see if we can use them lol. it's what makes MMA 'mixed'
I do think as Drose says though that GSP was probably being very polite, perhaps he was mindful of the fanatical Rogan fans!It's a thing that MMA fighters have I think, we watch everyone's techniques to see if we can use them lol. it's what makes MMA 'mixed'
This is imo one of the best ways to see if someone is blowing smoke or actually training and competing.
You rarely see the guys who really compete doing any sort of style bashing. They dont care about popular opinion of a style or peoples input. If they see something that they think could help, theyre respectful and wanna learn it. Whether they commit to a style or not.
Its not true 100% of the time, but in my experience its true more often than not.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
We teach both and everything in between - although it is not that slow traditional style donkey kick.
Standard Kukki dwi chagi passes the standing leg with the knees tight together and travels straight to target because it covers the groin and takes the most direct route therefore fastest route to target. It does rotate the kick knee out slightly as it approaches the end of its travel.
Momdollyo yop chagi is a different but related kick in that it relies on a different muscle set but has a similar mechanic - it just turns about 90 degrees further and has that high knee chamber. I love the look of this kick, it looks clean and tidy and depending on the person can be either more or less powerful. On the downside, it exposes a couple of targets during the kick which are not exposed during dwi chagi, namely the pills and the front of the chest.
There are also hybrid kicks at every point between the two kicks. These are the ones I see most often in sport usage.
One benefit to the knee high kick it that it is easily and quickly convertible on the fly to reach the head or even become bandae dollyo chagi / momdollyo huryo chagi. That's harder to do with the knee down, but it depends on how the person's flexibility works. I tend to throw what fits the situation, the kicks are so closely related that it's not even a conscious decision.
See the first instructions on Dwi Chagi with the knee in tight. Both kicks are demonstrated in this video.
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Jaeimseu
3rd Black Belt
For me, the knee down style kick is faster and takes less space to throw. It's also far less likely that you'll over or under rotate.
I do like the knee up (sidekick) kick, for breaking, at least power breaking.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Agree agree agree. That knee up version just looks so crisp for presenting breaking. I definitely get more power knee down, but I think that's to do with how I am built - I am a better back kicker than a side kicker. I do know some people who get great power breaking results with the knee up though.
Nice video, the back kick I do, the Wado Ryu is like the latter one in the video, slight differences in execution and slight difference in how the foot is angled. Ours tend not to be a spinning kick and it is fast once you can do it. I can do it from a standing start if you know what I mean, ( explaining these things is not my forte) just standing there and do it. It's not so different though. I like the way the video explained and showed things, very easy to understand if not do ( for me lol).
On ours the knees are together as I remember many years ago a rather sexist instructor shouting at the ladies that while it was unusual for us we were to keep our knees together for the start of this kick, nice!
I do love variations on kicks that people do, always interesting even if some of them are out of my range
There are quite a few.
Seems like Rogan is an expert on everything!
Gwai Lo Dan
3rd Black Belt
I was going to post this too, since someone posted a video of Benny The Jet doing a back kick, while Joe does a turning side kick. I saw a video or read once (don't remember where) that Benny said he used to love the turning side kick, until he got kicked a couple times in the cajones, then after that, he much preferred the back kick.
