I will admit, there are some crappy Kenpo vids out there, however, there are many quality ones. Not sure what you're looking at, but you may want to look again. In addition to the names that Twin Fist mentioned, I'd also suggest looking at the ones by James Hawkins. While he isn't a Kenpo Senior, he has some damn good vids out there.
Joe Palanzo's Kenpo Self Protection.
- Thread starter hongkongfooey
- Start date
I will admit, there are some crappy Kenpo vids out there, however, there are many quality ones. Not sure what you're looking at, but you may want to look again. In addition to the names that Twin Fist mentioned, I'd also suggest looking at the ones by James Hawkins. While he isn't a Kenpo Senior, he has some damn good vids out there.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Is it the videos, or the quality of the kenpo that you are interested in? They are not necessarily the same thing.
If you feel you get good instruction and the system you train in is high quality, then that is important. Whether or not it looks good on video, or whether or not Mr. Palanzo looks good on video, or whether or not the video production is high quality, really ought to be irrelevant.
I've seen Tracys technique reference videos, since I train in that system. They were made around the early 1980s, and Al Tracy did most of the demonstrations in them. They are really meant to be a reference for people who have already learned the system. It is obvious that very little was invested in production of the videos, having a very "home video" look to them, not at all professional or flashy or fancy or Hollywood-esque. Al does not do a flashy or fancy demonstration of the material either. He works thru the techs and explains what is going on. Any outsider who is looking for "entertaining" kenpo, or "flashy" kenpo, or some kind of Hollywood-worthy production and action-movie presenation, would be disappointed with these videos. There is nothing of the flash and presentation that people like Mr. Tatum have put into their videos (from what little I've seen of them, at least). But the quality of the system is solid, and that is what matters. Not the quality or presentation on video.
So I think you need to decide for yourself if the quality of your system and the quality of the training you are getting is worthwhile. Not how impressive it looks on video.
Just my two cents.
Hollywood1340
2nd Black Belt
With all due respect to one of the Seniors of the Art if I put on a 10th, do I instantly deserve respect? Don't confuse RANK with RESPECT. Rank can be given, respect must be earned. And if you're willing to put it out so that people can see it, be prepared for both sides of the coin. Rank does not nor will it ever dictate my opinion on what I see, nor my comments as such. When or how I say it may be different but I don't care if you're a yellow or a 5th. I enjoy seeing your respect for Mr. Palonzo, but it would seem some of the "bs" on this site may have merit. Take it or leave it.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
with all due respect, GM Palanzo just doesnt move that well anymore. Thats a fact. He should stop taping himself.
that said, i KNOW he is a master instructor, and i know that in his day, he was a terrific kenpoka
dont mistake legit critique for a lack of respect.
that said, i KNOW he is a master instructor, and i know that in his day, he was a terrific kenpoka
dont mistake legit critique for a lack of respect.
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
As the official voice of dissent, allow me to comment on the lousy kenpo Palanzo has posted on expert village and youtube. Awful. I am sure Mr. 17 feels a great deal of respect for his instructor; this is as it should be -- you really have no business training under someone you cannot find respect for.
That being said, the level of expertise demonstrated in the videos I have seen is bloody awful. Moreover, he is one of the worst out there when it comes to inflated claims about successorship. His website and marketing hype has been filled with "Mr. Parker was gonna make me da bomb, but he died before he could" junk.
So...maybe, despite all of this, he's an excellent instructor, and we will be able to see that in the quality of his students. But wait!!!! We have video on youtube of his ex-right hand man, and he is worse than Palanzo. (which is strange to see, because Steve moved a lot better over the years -- you're supposed to improve in this stuff over time, not degrade horribly).
Wanna know where he got that awful mode of moving and lousy interpretation of kenpo?
The Emperor has no clothes. Deal with it.
Now...compare the wat these guys move, to Mr. Parker:
or people who actually were his protoge's, and not at a distance...
All lacking in Palanzo, and his long time student. Now...if there is video evidence available to suggest there is a level of skill and talent not otherwise evident in the available resources, I am certainly open to watching it, and re-evaluating my position.
But until then...if it smells like poop, feels like poop, and tastes like poop, well, Jabornik, good thing we no step in it, Ja?
Dave
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Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
You're a better man than I am, sir.
OP
OP
hongkongfooey
Black Belt
FWIW, I was a group student at Mr, Palanzo's school in Baltimore in the mid 1980's, and a semi-private student in the early 1990's, so I have my bias, LOL. I agree totally with Kembudo regarding Palanzo's inflated claims, noting however, that most of the other seniors (Planas, Trejo, Tatum, etc) went through similar "inflationary" periods, and I don't see where their claims are more substantial than Palanzo's. With the exception of Tatum, of course.
As far as his movement, he has suffered for many years (from at least the early 90's) from a bad hip (or knee? I forget exactly), which caused his movement to deteriorate quite a bit from when he was younger. I am not arguing that he is presenting himself well in the vids - he isn't. But I don't think it's because he is a terrible martial artist. I have personally witnessed him launch a 6'3" training partner across the room, and almost out a plate glass window at the Cockeysville school. I have also felt his power first hand. His technique may not look all that great, but he's got it where he needs it. He was able to impart substantial improvement to not only my physical technique, but also my understanding of the techniques themselves.
Palanzo had other seniors that moved very well - Stuart Hankin, Ben Cohen, and Karl Petro for a few.
I agree that the distance did cause some dulling of technique, compared to our west-coast brothers. Mr Palanzo did strive to get Mr Parker to come to his school as often as he could.
All lacking in these videos, I could agree. But not completely lacking from the man. I personally thought that Tatum's video series was my favorite.
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Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Thank you for your input and honesty. Admittedly, I have not seen the other gentlemen you mentioned. One instructor of my own was infamous for having turned out some really stellar black belts, and some really awful ones: I know that one apple does not define the tree, and thank you for opening the aperture on this issue as related to Mr. Palanzo.
Mr. Palanzo, in his marketing rhetoric, refers back to an article in Black Belt magazine where Mr. Parker referred to him and a couple other guys as his protoge's of the day. Not mentioned in that article was the tendency of Mr. P to have multiple protoge's, some public a business members of his associatioon, some just people he liked to teach. Some students paid for his services, some never did.
I would certainly count Larry as a protoge -- his contract included regular lessons with the old man. Frank was the main professor at the Pasadena school for many years, and he was Mr. P's travelling companion and uke for a spell. Doesn;t sound innately interesting, until you realize that just talking kenpo with Mr. P over lunch could give you enough material to work on for months, with the results infusing all of your kenpo. Can you imagine killing flight time and hotel time with him?
And for all the famous ones, there were unfamous ones -- one of my favorite examples is Dennis Conatser. Went to him already a black belt, but asked Mr. P to show him how he wanted the system done, starting at Yellow. Speakman went on to be famous, while guys like Dennis and Frank have wealths of knowledge, but nobody goes out of their ways to find these guys and pick their brains. They just sit quietly by, watching the famous ones claim to be kings, and daddy's only favorites.
And I agree about the Tatum tapes. While I always fun on the reverb thing he does in them, he demonstrates (but doesn't directly teach) some of the movement "isms" of Mr. Parkers that made a massive difference in Mr. P's own kenpo...rotational torque pieces, orbital switches, reverse action paths, built in multiplicities, etc. Something Mr. parker often did was double or triple throw a single strike in a combo...like throw the first outward handsword in 5 Swords 3 times in a row before moving on to the palm heel. After 38 years at this stuff, I'm only just starting to be able to "echo" moves like that, while maintaining back-up mass in directional harmony. Lotsa layers to this stuff, and sometimes it's really frickin' hard to cover all the bases.
Milt G.
Purple Belt
Hello,
Sadly, many of the Kenpo seniors have difficulty moving as they once did. A sign of getting older, it seems. The body just begins to wear out with hard work and age.
We all know that Kenpo, good Kenpo, requires a great deal of hard work. Add to that 50, or so, years of study and one tends to slow down a bit. Seems it does not get better after more time.
If they only knew in the 60's what working out like they did would do to their body over time, perhaps they would have trained a little differently.
I know I would have.
Many are taking a much deserved rest.
On the positive side, there are many Kenpo ground floor seniors still out there "giving it hell"... Truly a pleasure to see!
Thank you,
Milt G.
Sadly, many of the Kenpo seniors have difficulty moving as they once did. A sign of getting older, it seems. The body just begins to wear out with hard work and age.
We all know that Kenpo, good Kenpo, requires a great deal of hard work. Add to that 50, or so, years of study and one tends to slow down a bit. Seems it does not get better after more time.
If they only knew in the 60's what working out like they did would do to their body over time, perhaps they would have trained a little differently.
I know I would have.
Many are taking a much deserved rest.
On the positive side, there are many Kenpo ground floor seniors still out there "giving it hell"... Truly a pleasure to see!
Thank you,
Milt G.
