Jkd instructor

[JowGaWolf]

All the BS gets exposed when you're trying to KO the other guy & he, you. That's why, it's a higher level than just doing kata/forms.

I think these are 2 separate things. You are right about the fear though. Application is definitely a higher level. There are things that I learned through application (through sparring) that wasn't possible to learn through kata alone. Kata informs Application. Application clarifies kata. Sparring validates Kata and Application.

1. Kata -> Application ->Sparring

First the student learns how to throw a jab correctly -> then the student learns what it's used for -> Then the student learns how to apply in the context of sparring.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I wouldn't try to do a small joint manipulation in a fight unless my hands were already in place from doing something else. I don't think I've ever tried to actively go after a small joint manipulation. My personal thoughts about those things is that they work best when they are used as a secondary option when that joint just happens to be there.

For example: I wouldn't actively seek to bite someone's finger off, but since it was on my mouth, I figured, why not. That's how I think of small joint locks. Over all I don't have the hand strength to fool around with certain locks.

I think that, like so many things, it comes down to what you've trained, what you've practiced, and what you've used before. I've used small joint manipulations on many occasions, so I don't hesitate to use them. Sadly, the flip side to that statement is that I've had more opportunity to try them than most.

 

[jayoliver00]

I think these are 2 separate things. You are right about the fear though. Application is definitely a higher level. There are things that I learned through application (through sparring) that wasn't possible to learn through kata alone. Kata informs Application. Application clarifies kata. Sparring validates Kata and Application.

1. Kata -> Application ->Sparring

First the student learns how to throw a jab correctly -> then the student learns what it's used for -> Then the student learns how to apply in the context of sparring.

The main prob. with TMA Kata is that they include a lot of fluff, meant for aesthetics, lineage, selling belts, etc.

And I have no prob. with people just wanting to train forms & light to medium power sparring. It's just a lower level of training than Fighter's training. Because a Fighter can do all of that kata if he wanted to but the non-fighter can't train like the fighter, due to fear.

 

[jayoliver00]

Prove to whom? You? The neighbors? The world of Martialtalk? I don’t care what they may or may not think of my skills.

Did you get the impression that I have never done hard sparring?

Well, at the end of the day we all have our reasons for doing what we do. If this works for you, then keep at it.

Obviously, the main point is still that you probably cannot train & fight like a Fighter; while he can certainly do what you do if he wanted to. Also, the Fighter probably doesn't want to train like you do, just like you don't care for his; but he could if he wanted to, thus yours is a lower level of training.

 

[jayoliver00]

I'm not sure this is true. I think of a lot of scenarios where fighter can't do a lot of what the none fighters do. Could they do it, if they wanted to? Maybe. But if that top MMA fighter isn't doing it now in the present, then that answer would be no. "If they wanted to" makes a lot of assumptions. I could have been a professional fighter "If I wanted to." Could I? If I'm not so sure about that. Even people who want to be professional Athletes are never able to become one. Or people who want to be signers don't make it. "If they could" makes the assumption that someone already have the skills and ability. I'm not the best person in Jow Ga Kung Fu. Could I be if I wanted to? I definitely don't feel honest to say yes.

I'm not necessarily saying to become the best in the world at Fighting or Kata, just the type of training being lower & higher levels.

(1) If I wanted to train Kata only w/some light to medium sparring to earn belts, I can do it pretty easily. Maybe even some hard sparring once in a blue moon.

(2) If I wanted to train RBSD and do similar as above, I can also do that too, easily.

(3) But to fight in MMA or Muay Thai, that's going to be a lot more difficult. The weight cutting in itself is going to suck. Then there's the ton of pain & suffering that comes along with training to fight; not just once but multiple 2-3 fights a year.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The main prob. with TMA Kata is that they include a lot of fluff, meant for aesthetics, lineage, selling belts, etc.

And I have no prob. with people just wanting to train forms & light to medium power sparring. It's just a lower level of training than Fighter's training. Because a Fighter can do all of that kata if he wanted to but the non-fighter can't train like the fighter, due to fear.

What a load of nonsense. I don't do hard sparring any more. Neither does Cowboy Cerrone. I'd like to see you go tell him it's because he's afraid. I'll give you a ride to the ER afterwards.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Obviously, the main point is still that you probably cannot train & fight like a Fighter;

This is the easy part. Me training to be a fighter is easier than me training to be good in my kung fu forms.

Forms never get easier. Once it gets easier you bump it up again and then it's difficult all over. For example start off with the right. When it get easy then start on the opposite side and it's like you are a beginner again. Form require me to do more techniques than I would use in a fight.

 

[Flying Crane]

Obviously, the main point is still that you probably cannot train & fight like a Fighter; while he can certainly do what you do if he wanted to. Also, the Fighter probably doesn't want to train like you do, just like you don't care for his; but he could if he wanted to, thus yours is a lower level of training.

Of course I can train like an MMA competitor, if I wanted to. And of course an mma competitor could train like I do if he wanted to. Where is the mystery in that?

I really don’t understand your motivation here. Well, other than to say “I like THIS, so it is the BEST! Because I like it!”

 

[Oily Dragon]

I'm not necessarily saying to become the best in the world at Fighting or Kata, just the type of training being lower & higher levels.

(1) If I wanted to train Kata only w/some light to medium sparring to earn belts, I can do it pretty easily. Maybe even some hard sparring once in a blue moon.

(2) If I wanted to train RBSD and do similar as above, I can also do that too, easily.

(3) But to fight in MMA or Muay Thai, that's going to be a lot more difficult. The weight cutting in itself is going to suck. Then there's the ton of pain & suffering that comes along with training to fight; not just once but multiple 2-3 fights a year.

I think I found your problem. It's right there in the "to fight in MMA or Muay Thai..".

Dude, there are more worlds than those. Lots more. And they have plenty of pain and suffering in the training. Go find them.

I'll grant you this though, in my own opinion, for every 1 person that truly suffers during training any TMA, there are probably 100 that pretend. Somebody once asked me "how long is your horse" and I surprised myself one day by responding "daily". Because by then it had become true.

But that's where competition comes in. People who do have an edge. People who don't want to, probably have a big disadvantage. People who can't, god bless their big hearts.

Topic, topic...by the time I started picking up JKD, I didn't have to worry about how long I could hold various static stances. I could hold them indefinitely. But I would never abandon them, or any of the fist sets. They're ingrained in my mental. Bruce Lee said to keep what was useful. So far, that's everything.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm not necessarily saying to become the best in the world at Fighting or Kata, just the type of training being lower & higher levels.

(1) If I wanted to train Kata only w/some light to medium sparring to earn belts, I can do it pretty easily. Maybe even some hard sparring once in a blue moon.

(2) If I wanted to train RBSD and do similar as above, I can also do that too, easily.

(3) But to fight in MMA or Muay Thai, that's going to be a lot more difficult. The weight cutting in itself is going to suck. Then there's the ton of pain & suffering that comes along with training to fight; not just once but multiple 2-3 fights a year.

I'm not sure how old your are, but you are welcomed to do the same training that I do with my son. We don't train for belts. We don't train for RBSD. We dont' train for Competition.

We are currently training at a Beginner's level so you should be fine.

 

[_Simon_]

Soooooo anyone gonna contact the Super Saiyan for some good ol JKD trainin'??

 

[jayoliver00]

Of course I can train like an MMA competitor, if I wanted to. And of course an mma competitor could train like I do if he wanted to. Where is the mystery in that?

I really don’t understand your motivation here. Well, other than to say “I like THIS, so it is the BEST! Because I like it!”

I doubt that you can; let's be real.

 

[jayoliver00]

I think I found your problem. It's right there in the "to fight in MMA or Muay Thai..".

Dude, there are more worlds than those. Lots more. And they have plenty of pain and suffering in the training. Go find them.

I'll grant you this though, in my own opinion, for every 1 person that truly suffers during training any TMA, there are probably 100 that pretend. Somebody once asked me "how long is your horse" and I surprised myself one day by responding "daily". Because by then it had become true.

But that's where competition comes in. People who do have an edge. People who don't want to, probably have a big disadvantage. People who can't, god bless their big hearts.

Topic, topic...by the time I started picking up JKD, I didn't have to worry about how long I could hold various static stances. I could hold them indefinitely. But I would never abandon them, or any of the fist sets. They're ingrained in my mental. Bruce Lee said to keep what was useful. So far, that's everything.

I know that there are more "worlds" than these. I even stated such. I'm merely saying that the world of MMA fighting is the higher level.

 

[Flying Crane]

I doubt that you can; let's be real.

Has this just become personal, about me? Seriously? Find yourself another hill to die on.

 

[jayoliver00]

I'm not sure how old your are, but you are welcomed to do the same training that I do with my son. We don't train for belts. We don't train for RBSD. We dont' train for Competition.

We are currently training at a Beginner's level so you should be fine.

I've been training regularly since about June of 2020, so only stopped during the outbreak for about 4 months. I train about 13-15 hours a week, which pales in comparison to what I'd need to do if I were to compete.

 

[jayoliver00]

This is the easy part. Me training to be a fighter is easier than me training to be good in my kung fu forms.

Forms never get easier. Once it gets easier you bump it up again and then it's difficult all over. For example start off with the right. When it get easy then start on the opposite side and it's like you are a beginner again. Form require me to do more techniques than I would use in a fight.

What I'm saying is that a UFC athlete of your size would be able to do those forms that you can do, if he wanted to (unless he has a learning disability or something). As it's mostly memorization + agility.

While for you to do what he does, takes a lot more pain & suffering & athleticism. It's like, everybody can jog, but jogging to win marathons, is a much higher level.

 

[Flying Crane]

I've been training regularly since about June of 2020, so only stopped during the outbreak for about 4 months. I train about 13-15 hours a week, which pales in comparison to what I'd need to do if I were to compete.

WAIT A MINUTE! You’ve been training for all of LESS THAN TWO WHOLE YEARS??! !

To see how you go on here, I thought by Thor, you must be a 30 year seasoned veteran! Wow, you had me fooled, you spoke with SUCH authority and conviction! And to find that YOU DONT EVEN COMPETE!! This is HILARIOUS!!

 

[jayoliver00]

What a load of nonsense. I don't do hard sparring any more. Neither does Cowboy Cerrone. I'd like to see you go tell him it's because he's afraid. I'll give you a ride to the ER afterwards.

You obviously don't know the reasons why Cerrone said that nor what the reasons for hard sparring is for.

And Cerrone is somehow the Final Authority on how all fighters should train now? Now that's nonsense.

 

[jayoliver00]

WAIT A MINUTE! You’ve been training for all of LESS THAN TWO WHOLE YEARS??! !

To see how you go on here, I thought by Thor, you must be a 30 year seasoned veteran! Wow, you had me fooled, you spoke with SUCH authority and conviction! And to find that YOU DONT EVEN COMPETE!! This is HILARIOUS!!

Calm down, I meant since the outbreak that shut down my gym.

But I'm glad I made you ecstatically happy for a brief moment there,

 

[Flying Crane]

Calm down, I meant since the outbreak that shut down my gym.

But I'm glad I made you happy for a brief moment there,

Oh, so you’ve been training for something like three years? And watching matches on TV? When will you have your first match? You might gain a smidgen of credibility back.