Jewish children shot dead in France

[Tez3]

From Bill Mattock's post #5...

Not in uniform but he identified himself to the killer as a soldier...

What's your point? The killer knew he was an Arab soldier. He targeted Arab and black soldiers, you can't mistake them for white soldiers and he targeted Orthodox Jews at a Jewish school.

 

[billc]

I'm not sure what your point is. He targeted soldiers and Jewish people, and appears to be a radical muslim terrorist. The one soldier was not in a uniform but identified himself as a soldier before being ambushed by the killer. It is possible that the U.S. had this guy in custody at one point and that he escaped.

Our soldiers have been killed, I believe it was in Germany, before they were about to be deployed, and Jewish people are still targets of radical islamic terrorism. Soldiers and Jewish people.

 

[Tez3]

I've no idea what you are on about to be honest, you say in one post that you can't tell religion when people are in uniform now you are saying Jews are targeted by Islamic militants, no **** Sherlock. We are also targeted by anti Semitic bigots not of an Islamic background, notably the various National Front and nazi lovers there are out there. You seem more concerned about the left/right views of the killer than that a killer executed small children. He killed two little boys father in front of them then shot them in the head, at 3 and 5 they weren't much more than babies. He grabbed a little girl by the hair and shot her in the head, he shot a teenager attempting to flee. He lured an Arab/French soldier to his death, he shot a West Indian as well as other Arab Frenchmen, shooting one as he tried to crawl away. But what matters to you is that no one looks upon this as a right wing crime, no matter who was killed. That sickens me.

 

[billc]

Perhaps he knew they were jewish because they were in front of a Jewish school...


From Bill Mattock's post...

On 19 March, a gunman on a moped attacked the Ozar Hatorah Jewish school in Toulouse.

I believe it was you Tez who first inaccurately accused the islamic radical terrorist killer of being a left wing socialist of the german model, not me.

He knew they were Jewish because they were in front of the Jewish school and he knew they were soldiers because they were in uniform or self-identified themselves as soldiers to him.

 

[billc]

This article goes into the media template of the killer being a "right wing" neo-nazi...

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/03/2...;s-‘far-right’-profile-perfectly/

The suspect has been named as Mohammed Merah, a French national of Algerian origin. According to reports in the French media, Merah fought with the Taliban in Afghanistan, and after being captured he escaped in a mass breakout from Kandahar prison in 2008.
The news that the killer is not just a Muslim but a veteran jihadist will prove hard to swallow for sections of the liberal media both in Europe and the U.S., which had been playing down the possibility of an Islamist connection, and pushing the theory that the gunman was a “far-right” (the media’s term, not mine) extremist in the mold of the Norwegian mass-shooter Anders Breivik.
The selection of Jewish victims clearly suggested either an Islamist or “far-right” connection. But while the identities of the soldiers – two were Muslims of North African descent and the third was a black man — certainly allowed for the possibility that the gunman was a racist, and possibly a neo-Nazi, it was equally likely that the soldiers were targeted because of French involvement in Afghanistan, and that their ethnicity was irrelevant.
However, the narrative which had gained widespread popularity — certainly in the left-leaning British and American media — in the past few days was that the gunman was a racist who had been driven to committing the murders by the emergence of immigration, and Islam in particular, as an issue in the current French presidential campaign. The possibility of Islamic terrorism had been barely mentioned.

Large sections of the media got this one spectacularly wrong, but don’t expect them to acknowledge that fact. Instead, look for them to move move seamlessly from the “far-right extremist” theme to asking what could have provoked Merah (post-traumatic shock brought on from his experiences in Afghanistan perhaps?).

 

[Tez3]

Perhaps he knew they were jewish because they were in front of a Jewish school...


From Bill Mattock's post...



I believe it was you Tez who first inaccurately accused the islamic radical terrorist killer of being a left wing socialist of the german model, not me.

He knew they were Jewish because they were in front of the Jewish school and he knew they were soldiers because they were in uniform or self-identified themselves as soldiers to him.

Actually I didn't express a personal opinion as to what ilk the killer was I reported what was being said in the press and by the French. You, as usual, only read what you want to see in something and you are the only one who is low enough to argue left/right politics at a time of grief.

You keep banging that left equals Nazi drum, you make a noise but a noise isn't the truth.


I don't know why you feel the need to state the obvious ie they were Jewish because they were in front of a Jewish school... yes they were Jewish which is why I mourn for them. May their memory be for a blessing.

 

[billc]

Just responding to this...

I've no idea what you are on about to be honest, you say in one post that you can't tell religion when people are in uniform now you are saying Jews are targeted by Islamic militants, no **** Sherlock.

 

[Sukerkin]

I'll bet you don't even think you're being insensitive; for you are, you know. As was said at times of other terrorist activity, there is nothing wrong with waiting a decent amount of time before hauling out the tawdry cloth of political point scoring.

Have a look again at the picture of the little lass, some proud fathers 'princess', that this waste of DNA shot through the head and tell me again that I should care what his politics were.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17443667

Maybe later is the time where we can talk about motivation?

 

[billc]

Since this is the first political statement on the shooting...

I'm afraid it sounds like one of those National Front/Right Wing things as the soldiers who were killed were from North African and Caribbean origins. To go to a school however and target young children is beyond contempt, beyond belief. I grieve for such young lives snuffed out.

Made by Tez in the opening posts on this thread, I somehow don't think you were addressing her Sukerkin, just my response to her political statement...

 

[Sukerkin]

Enough for now, please.

 

[jks9199]

Everybody, let's tone down the rhetoric a bit. This was an incalculable tragedy, most especially for the families of the children. Let's not make it worse by letting it become some sort of feeding frenzy here.

 

[Big Don]

Maybe later is the time where we can talk about motivation?

That seems fair enough, on the surface, but, remember, every single attack, by a Muslim, anywhere in the world, since 9-11-01, has been screeched about and preached about as "THIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE KILLER/SHOOTER/ATTACKER BEING MUSLIM". It is, bluntly a crock of dung.
Muslim guy shoots up Seattle Jewish center, of course not because he was Muslim and they were Jews.
Major Hasan shoots up Fort Hood, of course, his being Muslim had NOTHING to do with it.
This, most recent ***, shoots troops and then CHILDREN, but, his being MUSLIM had NOTHING to do with it.
Sorry,that is like saying fish aren't wet because of the water in the ocean.

 

[billc]

Sukerkin, I thought about not responding to Tez, but she came in with the political aspect on the third post. Have you asked her to tone down her responses in light of the tragedy? I thought not...

 

[Tez3]

Bili, if you understood European politics from before the war through the war and afterwards you would know why I said that I'm afraid that it sounds like.... and we are afraid you know, you don't understand the fear that these groups engender, far more than any Muslim radicals engender. There have been nearly 700 attacks on the Jewish Community in the UK last year, some of them violent and one very violent, only a very few of them were committed by Muslim sympathisers. When Muslims and Jews are shot it does sound very like the far right groups again, yes again. I don't think you realise how often they attack ethnic minorities. Nor do I think you understand, probably very luckily, what the far right is in European, you see things as being the same as in America, where you have a right party and a left party both of whom while they fight in the media don't actually go to war with each other. In Europe, notably France the far right has a fairly strong hold in the polls, they aren't in control of much...yet but the fear is that they will. Again you don't understand the fear. It worries me very much and yes I'm afraid that the rise of the far right will be bad for ethnic minorities.
You can call an apple an orange if you wish however everyone else will still call that apple an apple, it doesn't change the nature of it. The Far Right worries and scares more people here than Muslim extremism ever will. If you wish to defend the Far Right fine but don't expect people to understand.

 

[Sukerkin]

That seems fair enough, <snip>

I can't conceive that what I said could be mis-interpreted - it was quite clear (or at least I intended it to be) that all I was asking for was a bit of decent behaviour from my fellows here. In a week or two by all means bicker politics/religion/fanatacism as you wish.

But please let the blood cool on the pavement first.

 

[Tez3]

That seems fair enough, on the surface, but, remember, every single attack, by a Muslim, anywhere in the world, since 9-11-01, has been screeched about and preached about as "THIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE KILLER/SHOOTER/ATTACKER BEING MUSLIM". It is, bluntly a crock of dung.
Muslim guy shoots up Seattle Jewish center, of course not because he was Muslim and they were Jews.
Major Hasan shoots up Fort Hood, of course, his being Muslim had NOTHING to do with it.
This, most recent ***, shoots troops and then CHILDREN, but, his being MUSLIM had NOTHING to do with it.
Sorry,that is like saying fish aren't wet because of the water in the ocean.

I don't think anyone said anything about it not being anything to do with him being Muslim beause all the speculation from the press etc came before he was identified. The crime at the time it was commited sounded like one of many that occur in France where ethnic minorities are targeted, since he was named no one has said anything about it not being because he was Muslim.

 

[ballen0351]

Well looks like hes dead so we may never know the real reason for this.

 

[Big Don]

Well looks like hes dead so we may never know the real reason for this.

Au contraire:
From the Telegraph:
Toulouse shooting: killer 'was on US no-fly list'

France was facing calls for a far-reaching intelligence inquiry on Thursday night following reports that a suspected al-Qaeda-trained killer shot dead after a marathon siege in Toulouse was on the US no-fly list.


By Henry Samuel, Paris

8:32PM GMT 22 Mar 2012

Nationwide relief greeted the news that no police fatalities had been incurred in eliminating Mohammed Merah, 23, wanted in the killings of three French paratroopers, a rabbi and three children ages 4, 5, and 7 shot outside a Jewish school in Toulouse.

But the authorities faced growing criticism that it should have prevented a killing spree by a known fundamentalist who was the US no-fly list and had attended an al-Qaeda training camp.

Jund al-Khilafah, an al-Qaeda front organisation claimed responsibility the shootings in a statement posted on jihadist websites.

"On ... March 19th, our brother Yousef the Frenchman carried out an operation that shook the foundations of the Zionist Crusaders ... and filled their hearts with terror," it wrote.

"We claim responsibility for these operations," it went on, adding that Israel's "crimes ... will not go unpunished."



Mr Merah admitted responsibility for the shootings during long talks with negotiators, expressing no remorse other than he had not killed more people.
The scooter-driving gunman filmed all his murders with a mini-camera, and can be heard shouting "Alluha Akbar" and "You killed my brothers, I kill you" in two of the shootings.
He told authorities he had been trained by Al-Qaeda on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.
Claude Guéant, the Interior minister admitted that he had been under surveillance "for several years", adding he had never "shown any sign of preparing criminal acts" at the outset of the seige.
Increasingly damning evidence suggested France was aware Mr Mehar posed a threat.
END EXCERPT
Nope, not one clue exists to his motivation, none at all.Mr Merah admitted responsibility for the shootings during long talks with negotiators, expressing no remorse other than he had not killed more people.
The scooter-driving gunman filmed all his murders with a mini-camera, and can be heard shouting "Alluha Akbar" and "You killed my brothers, I kill you" in two of the shootings.
He told authorities he had been trained by Al-Qaeda on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.
This will be one of the great mysteries of all time, like, "Is water wet?"

 

[Makalakumu]

Or maybe it's the product of Stanley McChrystal's Insurgent Math. "For every innocent life we take, we create ten new enemies." There's a swarm of real terrorists coming because we're over there killing them.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...afghanistanbre82k0kj-20120321,0,1998203.story

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) - French school shooting suspect Mohamed Merah had been arrested for bomb making in the southern Afghan province of Kandahar in 2007 but escaped months later in a Taliban prison break, the director of prisons in Kandahar told Reuters.

Looks like he was fighting us over there and decided to bring the fight over here. This could be called blowback...except for the fact that we know why fight's being taken to the West. We're over there killing and bombing and terrorizing...

 

[Tez3]

This actually has everything to do with racism, firstly... the killer was of Algerian descent. That probably won't mean much to you but while Algeria celebrates it's 50th anniversay of indenpendence from France there is still an extraoridnary amount of bitterness against France and the French. The separation was a bloody and bitter one. http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/alpha/algeria1954.htm

Arabs aren't welcome in France which is probably one of the most intolerant places in Europe, no ethnic minority is actually welcome, don't be fooled by the crocodile tears being wept by many politicians there over the deaths of the Jews nor the deaths of it's 'ethnic' soldiers. In some cities such as Lyon, Marseille and Paris there are large sprawls of run down housing estates which are ghettos for the poor mostly of Arab and North African descent. They feel victimised which in many cases they are. These are breeding grounds for the Islamic fundamentalists, they do what fundamentalists do in every religion and political group, they rouse the young up to believe they can fight the system, sometimes this is good often not as in this case. it's the ideal place to find disaffected, abused youths to turn into terrorists.


The National Front, the far right , have a big following in France and they stir up the pot that is France, if you aren't white, French and Catholic you have no place there they say. It's no use arging that they aren't the far right, it's what they are known as and acknowledge themselves to be, arging that they aren't is like arguing that Paris isn't the capitol of France. With the election this year looming politicians like Sarkozy are wooing the far right voters of which there are a great many, moderates have warned that using the race card will bring about trouble, it will bring more yet I've no doubt.


Incidentally the Palestinian prime Minister made a statement, a good one too.
"Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad said extremists must stop using the Palestinian cause to justify their acts of violence.
It is time for these criminals to stop marketing their terrorist acts in the name of Palestine and to stop pretending to stand up for the rights of Palestinian children who only ask for a decent life,&#8221; the Palestinian premier said in a statement."

Palestinian diplomatic missions &#8220;condemn in the strongest possible terms the hateful attack carried out in Toulouse,&#8221; a statement said. &#8220;All racist crimes are attacks on humanity in general and on the republic in particular.&#8221;

&#8220;It appears the weapon used in that massacre is the same as that used previously against three French soldiers of different origins, which leads one to suppose the killer is driven by a multifaceted racist hatred,&#8221; it said.