Accidental shootings of children are being undercounted.

[Bob Hubbard]

Just to add more numbers, here are reports for ALL firearm related injuries and deaths, from all sources, age 0 to 18 for about a decade. I've also included bb/pellet gun injuries as well which is recorded separately.

I am surprised by the lack of commentary regarding the numbers posted as the OP was very clearly interested in getting them right and putting the problem in proper perspective. While I can see differences in reporting to possibly mis-categorize a suicide as a homicide or an accident, a death is a death, and I doubt that the CDC would mis-classify a suicide by gun as drowning.

These numbers show a very clear image. Despite the population and gun ownership increasing over the past decade, and despite the number of firearms in general circulation also increasing dramatically, the incidents of injury and death by firearm has remained constant, and in fact decreased. In short, the claims of the anti-gun rights people are clearly lies, fed by their need to control and feel superior.

As always, my source is the CDC. My data is clearly posted and defined, and meets professional requirements. I await qualified refutation or independent verification of my data, findings and conclusions, and welcome correction from valid sources. This wouldn't be USA Today, the NY Times, The Brady Campaign or anyone who cried about being afraid to goto Starbucks because they might get shot.

The crickets below are free. Please do not confuse them with the pretzels in the Lounge.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Bob...please...liberals are bad enough without people giving them more ideas....!!!!

Bill, "Liberals" don't need me giving them ideas. They are full of ideas on how to step on the throat of freedom, reduce independence, punish free thinking, and pleasure themselves at the cost of others.

 

[ballen0351]

Prostitution is a crime. Who is the victim? One is willing to pay and the other is willing to provide a service for payment.

Society is the victim and its also not a crime everywhere

 

[arnisador]

Society is the victim

!!! Who knew you were a liberal?

 

[ballen0351]

!!! Who knew you were a liberal?

Having laws for the betterment of society doesnt make you a lib or conservative it makes you a member of society

 

[Tames D]

Society is the victim and its also not a crime everywhere

In what way is society the victim? And if that is the case, why isn't society a victim where it's legal?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally Posted by :scratchy: arnisador

Meanwhile, this thread is about getting the numbers right whether you think the numbers matter or not.

:hmm:


:wuguns:

 

[ballen0351]

In what way is society the victim? And if that is the case, why isn't society a victim where it's legal?

Because as a society decided we don't want that type of behavior so a violation of that behavior is a violation against "the state" or society so "the state" is the victim or in other words the people of that society are the victim. And in locations where its legal that society decided they are OK with it.

Every crime needs specific elements to be a crime. For example the old stand by you cant yell fire in a theater. Well actually you can and its not a crime unless you meet specific elements.
Here if I walked into a theater and yelled fire and i was alone its not a crime. If i yelled fire and everyone in the theater laughed and though it was funny its not a crime. The elenents of the crime require A. Other people to witness the crime B. People to be disturbed or bothered by the act
So you walk in yell fire and some one screams and runs out thats now a crime

 

[Tames D]

I'm still not sure how a man and woman who agree to have sex in exchange for money makes a victim of me, you, our neighbors, the guy that works at pizza hut etc. In what way are we victimized? Please explain.

 

[ballen0351]

I'm still not sure how a man and woman who agree to have sex in exchange for money makes a victim of me, you, our neighbors, the guy that works at pizza hut etc. In what way are we victimized? Please explain.

Because you live in society and that society made that law. You don't have agree with it. As a member of society you can change the law by voting or convincing others to agree wwith your position. I'm not surewhat you don't understand.
I for example don't want hookers and johns walking around my neighborhood. So I'm OK with it being illegal. I've also talked to and interacted with many woman that are prostitutes and if I really needed to pick a victim of the crime I'd pick them. Most had poor childhoods with molestation, and are severely addicted to drugs and alcohol. Its not like "pretty woman" or high priced call girls for the majority of these woman. The last brothel we raided had over 20 woman all smuggled in from Latin america and were here illegally and were sex slaves for the MS13 gangs out of northern Virginia. The woman had no choice and got little to no money. So we used the laws against prostitutiin as a means to get these woman out of that house and get then help.

 

[ballen0351]

Bringing it back to Guns we as a society could infact ban all guns if we wanted . All we would need to do was change the Constitution. As it sits now the society has decided the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

[arnisador]

Bringing it back to Guns we as a society could infact ban all guns if we wanted . All we would need to do was change the Constitution. As it sits now the society has decided the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

False. It is infringed. Some people--say, felons--aren't allowed to own them; others must get permits.

 

[ballen0351]

False. It is infringed. Some people--say, felons--aren't allowed to own them; others must get permits.

Yes we have been violating the Constitution since it was signed

 

[arnisador]

Yes we have been violating the Constitution since it was signed

So...we agree that you were wrong? That it is indeed infringed, as all other rights are, by law and judicial decision?

 

[ballen0351]

So...we agree that you were wrong? That it is indeed infringed, as all other rights are, by law and judicial decision?

No I agree we violated the Constitution.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

No I agree we violated the Constitution.

Some people are ok with the Constitution being infringed, as long as it makes them feel good. Some people like to creatively interpret it. Some people are idiots. I personally think those who would violate it are traitors and should be given a short drop and sudden stop.

 

[Big Don]

I like the way Arni is steering well clear of the CDC numbers Bob posted.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The NYT told him to believe they are wrong. Why would he talk about wrong numbers? There are also data at the FBI and DOJ that he could bring to the discussion, if he were truly interested in discussing the topic he started, rather than slinging insults like a net-troll. But why would he do that? He might find he is wrong, and you know how that is.

So, I'll bring the data he is afraid to bring.

According to the FBI, (Weapons: Table 20) there were a total of 12,996 murders in 2010, of which 8,775 were done by firearms of any type. They are involved in 20.6% of aggravated assaults (Aggravated Assault Table).

In 2010, an estimated 1,246,248 violent crimes occurred nationwide, a decrease of 6.0 percent from the 2009 estimate.
When considering 5- and 10-year trends, the 2010 estimated violent crime total was 13.2 percent below the 2006 level and 13.4 percent below the 2001 level. Information collected regarding type of weapon showed that firearms were used in 67.5 percent of the Nation’s murders, 41.4 percent of robberies, and 20.6 percent of aggravated assaults.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...-in-the-u.s.-2010/violent-crime/violent-crime

The Guardian, a UK newspaper did a study like the NY Times. However they used the FBI stats among others. Their Conclusion?
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

In 2011 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,664 murders in the US. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms.

Just like the UK, the United States has seen a long-term decline in crime, with firearms offences seeing a steeper fall than other crimes

As stated earlier, gun ownership has increased. The US population has increased. Crime, and Gun related incidents have, -decreased-.

But what about the US Department of Justice? http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

The report, by the department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, painted an encouraging picture of long-term trends at a time of divisive political debate over guns and legislation to regulate them. Firearms-related homicides declined 39 percent between 1993 and 2011, the report said, while nonfatal firearms crimes fell 69 percent during that period. . . . Less than 1 percent of state prison inmates who possessed a gun when they committed their offense obtained the firearm at a gun show, the report said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-violence-down-semi-automatics-a-minor-issue/

So. The CDC, The FBI and the DOJ all say the same thing: Crime, and Gun related incidents have, -decreased- and the trend is downward. Even as gun ownership soars!

In school year 2008-09, there were 1,579 homicides of students aged 5-18, of which -17- took place at school. Kids in schools today already suffer through unlawful random searches, little privacy, TSA level screenings, aren't allowed book bags, or must use clear bags, are not allowed to goto their lockers, and more. How much more do we inflict to save 1 more life?

Simply re-running the same “we gotta do something” legislative effort may be emotionally satisfying for liberals or politically inviting for proponents, but it isn’t solving much of anything.

Just pass them some lotion and a box of tissues already.

Since this is about accidents and not murder, lets look at the DOJ report, specifically TABLE 9 "Nonfatal firearm and nonfirearm violence, by injury and treatment received, 2007–2011"
In this 4 year period there were a reported 2,218,500 firearm related non-fatal incidents. That's an average of 554,625 per year, all ages. Of those 510,700 were listed as injured (127,675 avg), of which 148,300 (37,075 ave) were listed as serious.

In 2007-11, about 23% of all nonfatal firearm victims were physically injured during the victimization. About 7% suffered serious injuries (e.g., a gunshot wound, broken bone, or internal injuries), while 16% suffered minor injuries (e.g., bruises or cuts). Of the nonfatal firearm victims who were injured, 72% received some type of care, with about 82% receiving care in a hospital or medical office. The victim reported that the offender had fired the weapon in 7% of all nonfatal firearm victimizations. The victim suffered a gunshot wound in 28% of these victimizations

DOJ Report.

According to the NCVS, an average of about 22,000 nonfatal shooting victims occurred annually from 1993 to 2002 (not shown in table). From 2002 to 2011, the number of victims declined by about half to 12,900 per year.

DOJ Report

Again, we see studies by government agencies saying the same thing that 2nd Amendment respectors have been saying all along. Gun fearing liberals and control mad progressives continue to choose to be ignorant of data and conclusions by qualified agencies so that they can continue to push worthless fear laden feel goodism.

I'll keep calling ******** on them.

 

[ballen0351]

So I guess what we take from this is the numbers are very small kinda like we have been saying all along. Interesting........... Or well duh! However you want to look at it

 

[arnisador]

So I guess what we take from this is the numbers are very small

We don't know just what the numbers are but we would surely disagree about what is 'very small' regardless.