Doc
Senior Master
Of course, IF you have the underlying knowledge and basic skills acquired from someone else to make an informed decision of efficacy. But if Mr. Parker is available .... why trip?
With pardons to Ray.
Jena 6
- Thread starter MJS
- Start date
Of course, IF you have the underlying knowledge and basic skills acquired from someone else to make an informed decision of efficacy. But if Mr. Parker is available .... why trip?
With pardons to Ray.
Ray
Master Black Belt
If it were possible for humankind to apply logic, reason and application to come up with the right answer then we should have saved centuries in darkness.
Most of us learn from someone and spend our lives regurgitating it. The smart ones, and there are few, will revolutionize the world. Just as you and I learned martial arts from someone else...
What does it hurt to talk to the person with whom you disagree? Rather than apply logic and reason to what you think he says, you could converse to ensure a proper transfer of ideas has taken place.
michaeledward
Grandmaster
Ray, we don't need to be concerned with all humankind learning and applying logic; just the individual. I don't believe that logic, reason, and application are a panacea for all that is wrong in the world. I am wondering however, is there is a ground between those stumbling in the darkness and those who revolutionize the world.
In this instance, I believe the the tools of reason and logic can be applied by any individual on the material in question. I don't think we need to worry about what we think he says; his words are written down. They have been published with his name attached. His words are there for our considered and thoughtful review.
If my reasoning is incorrect, it can be analyzed by everyone right here, in the context of this thread. I have asked if I am misinterpreting the language he has written? We all share a common tongue here. No one has indicated any flaw in my logic and reasoning.
Instead, the conversation has turned to 'I must go to the source'. But, what if a source is not available, and the only thought they have left us is written (Mr. Shakespeare?)
My arguement is not that talking to the source would 'hurt'. It is that it is not necessary. The conversation is taking place here, on Martial Talk. One involved in the conversation used this article as a support for his position. To me, it is not a terribly strong argument. I don't know why that can't be discussed here, in our conversation. As opposed to starting a new conversation with someone not involved here.
michaeledward
Grandmaster
It was just announced that Mr. Bell's overturned conviction will be re-tried in the juvenile court system. This is where it belonged to begin with.
I am curious what charges are going to be brought against Mr. Bell with the new trial, and if there are any differences between the juvenile court system and the adult court system.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/09/jena-6-defendan.html
I am curious what charges are going to be brought against Mr. Bell with the new trial, and if there are any differences between the juvenile court system and the adult court system.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/09/jena-6-defendan.html
Brother John
Senior Master
Thanks for notifying us on that.
Yeah, there Should be a difference. MOSTLY just in the sentencing phase though. I WOULD say that the 'media circus' should be disappointed that they'll not be let into the court-room and there won't be a 'court reporter'... but I also wouldn't have thought that a juvenile's court records would be published...
so I'll just bite my tongue on that and wait.
But anyway, THIS is how it should be handled! Those guilty need to face appropriately leveled charges in a court appropriate to their age! Now, will the community that's gathered to "Free" him accept whatever the judge decides??
also: Now...those responsible for the nooses need to face charges of criminal or terroristic threat! They would in my state at least.
Your Brother
John
michaeledward
Grandmaster
District Attorney Reed Walters issued a statement today that he will not appeal the decision to re-try the case in the juvenile court.
Earlier, he had said that there were no laws in Louisiana that could have been brought against the students who hung the nooses on the tree. He also stated that the Louisiana area United States Attorney could not find sufficient cause to bring charges against those who hung the nooses. And, that the U.S. Attorneys and the Department of Justice would not, normally, bring charges against juveniles even if there was evidence appropriate for an adult charge.
If the former is true, it would seem the Louisiana legislature has some things it should put on their agenda.
If the latter is true, I am not certain there is anything inappropriate in those stipulations.
As for those who have called to 'free' them, and how they may react to re-trial, and adjudications, I would hope that no one would pre-judge the situation. The actions and decisions of the juvenile court will be weighed when they are presented. To state now that a judges ruling will be accepted, no matter what would be inappropriate, wouldn't it?
Earlier, he had said that there were no laws in Louisiana that could have been brought against the students who hung the nooses on the tree. He also stated that the Louisiana area United States Attorney could not find sufficient cause to bring charges against those who hung the nooses. And, that the U.S. Attorneys and the Department of Justice would not, normally, bring charges against juveniles even if there was evidence appropriate for an adult charge.
If the former is true, it would seem the Louisiana legislature has some things it should put on their agenda.
If the latter is true, I am not certain there is anything inappropriate in those stipulations.
As for those who have called to 'free' them, and how they may react to re-trial, and adjudications, I would hope that no one would pre-judge the situation. The actions and decisions of the juvenile court will be weighed when they are presented. To state now that a judges ruling will be accepted, no matter what would be inappropriate, wouldn't it?
michaeledward
Grandmaster
Big Don
Sr. Grandmaster
Of course the Mellencamp song is inflammatory, that is its whole purpose, that and getting his name out there again... not like John has done much in the last few years...
Hip hop artists use the "N" word far to often to be heard on any racial issue. Ice T, as much as I like him, is tainted by the "**** the Police" controversy, which, is mildly amusing, now that he plays a cop on TV...
Hip hop artists use the "N" word far to often to be heard on any racial issue. Ice T, as much as I like him, is tainted by the "**** the Police" controversy, which, is mildly amusing, now that he plays a cop on TV...
michaeledward
Grandmaster
Artists generally have an eye toward the emotional impacts in the community. Certianly there is opportunity for the artist community around these events.
I think that Melloncamp's song missed the mark. I think he has distilled too much out of the events of the fall of '06. I think he reaches too soon to the civil rights movement of the 60's. Maybe a 3 minute pop-song is an insufficient medium for these events.
If that is what the mayor was saying, I think he is on the right track.
If he was saying there is no racial problem in Jena, events have been 'mischaracterized', then he really needs to get back to school, himself.
I guess I would like to see what actions the mayor has taken over the past year that were intended to stop racial conflict. Has he been attempting to bring the community together? Or has he let the conflict play out and build? Did it really take him a year to create a committee to begin to study the racial problems in town?
There may just be a bit of 'methinks he doth protest too much' going on with Mayor McMillin.
EDIT - This article, with Mayor McMillin, is an interesting read.
http://www.nationalist.org/alt/2007/091901.html
I think it is important to note that Mayor McMillin initiated the conversation by returning a phone call to this white supremecist organization. END EDIT
I think that Melloncamp's song missed the mark. I think he has distilled too much out of the events of the fall of '06. I think he reaches too soon to the civil rights movement of the 60's. Maybe a 3 minute pop-song is an insufficient medium for these events.
If that is what the mayor was saying, I think he is on the right track.
If he was saying there is no racial problem in Jena, events have been 'mischaracterized', then he really needs to get back to school, himself.
I guess I would like to see what actions the mayor has taken over the past year that were intended to stop racial conflict. Has he been attempting to bring the community together? Or has he let the conflict play out and build? Did it really take him a year to create a committee to begin to study the racial problems in town?
There may just be a bit of 'methinks he doth protest too much' going on with Mayor McMillin.
EDIT - This article, with Mayor McMillin, is an interesting read.
http://www.nationalist.org/alt/2007/091901.html
I think it is important to note that Mayor McMillin initiated the conversation by returning a phone call to this white supremecist organization. END EDIT
CoryKS
Senior Master
To be fair to Mellencamp, I don't think this was a cynical ploy to get his name out there. He has a pretty loyal following and does well in cd and ticket sales.
I think he falls into the category of "people who think with their heart" - high on emotional value but sorely lacking in logic. The problem is that it leaves the brain little to do, and without meaningful work to keep it occupied the brain tends to atrophy.
michaeledward
Grandmaster
Ray
Master Black Belt
Reported as fact: The person {allegedly} committing an assault was arrested.
The story does not indicate that the young man discovered the vandal in the process of flattening the tires. If not, he was not acting to protect his property from being damaged--So it would appear to have been an illegal assault.
No mention was made to indicate how many flattened tires makes assault a legal option in that state. So unless the number is greater than zero the quantity and manner is irrelevant. It {the flattening of the tires} probably can be considered in the sentencing phase to reduce the punishment. And, if the tires were flattened then there may be the option for a civil case for property damage.
We can't just go around hitting people.
michaeledward
Grandmaster
Ray
Master Black Belt
I don't see any reference to "imploring" in any of the previous posts relating to this assault.
Doc
Senior Master
All reports indicate someone told him the victim of his assault had flattened two of his tires the previous evening, and he confronted and assaulted the person the next day.
Whether the person had actually flattened the tires is yet unknown, but the assault does not seem to be in dispute, only the "justification" given by the suspect. It is a fact that the defendants all have a history of violence. Why is it a surprise?
"When you glorify thuggery, and support the violent, it tends to repeat itself."
Whether the person had actually flattened the tires is yet unknown, but the assault does not seem to be in dispute, only the "justification" given by the suspect. It is a fact that the defendants all have a history of violence. Why is it a surprise?
"When you glorify thuggery, and support the violent, it tends to repeat itself."
michaeledward
Grandmaster
Well, we certainly can guess what lessons he has learned from interacting with the police department and the justice system, can't we?
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