Jedi and swordmanship
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CoryKS
Senior Master
Yes, but everything in the movies following that quote proves the opposite: that a single jedi with a lightsaber can fend off legions of blaster-wielding soldiers.
While I don't agree that lightsabers are within reach at this point in time, and while I will not even touch the religion question, I am a big enough fan of the series and have a sword art background, so I will engage you regarding usage of this hypothetical weapon.
The lightsaber is essentially a laser beam that is bent over itself, hence the point is not the end of a beam but the fold of the beam. The blade is a laser, so it has no weight whatsoever. The hilt contains the lenses, control mechanisms, and power supply, so while the blade has zero weight and mass, the hilt would likely be as heavy as one of those three or four D-cell mag lights. They certainly were sized like one in the movies.
Vader seemed to like throwing his around and it was stated that there was certainly Force usage in the use of the light saber. But you asked about use of a real light saber, should one be built.
Problem one is that we do not have the tech to make a power supply that can maintain a laser of that intensity for any length of time that would fit neatly into a maglight sized casing. So more than likely, the power supply would be multiple packs on the wielder's belt or worn bandoleer style with a wire running to the grip, much the same as a modern fencing weapon.
That kind of design would reduce the size of the grip, but would eliminate the cinematic spins and twirls seen the movies. One handed use would be more likely and most definitely would be more akin to saber fencing in terms of technique. Much more emphasis would be on find control and finger play due to the fact that a misstep with a laser sword means instant death or dismemberment to one's self. No amount of leather or padding will keep you from impaling yourself or from cutting your shins off.
Were they able to make the darned things self contained, as in star wars, a traditional kenjutsu style would be more likely, as the darned thing would be heavy as a one handed weapon.
I too would like to know what your experience in sword arts is.
Daniel
Omar B
Senior Master
Yes! That's exactly it! How do you safely train using a weapon that extends so long but all it's weight is in the handle? I'm not even gonna talk about the power necessary to generate a lazer at this point. That handle would be attached to something the size of a semi-truck.
I have experience with kendo and kenjutsu. I quit the kenjutsu because it is not as exciting as kendo, too much kata. Regarding the art, it is what some of you guys have said, deflect, angle, cut the wrist, head, neck, side of body. It is not flashy but straight to the point.
Okay, regarding the religion thing, it does not have to be a belief in a deity. But more of a philosophy such as the chivalry code of a knight or the bushido code of the samurai. Even modern soldier have a code.
It is obvious none of you have watch the show. The power of the lightsaber could use millions of small nano battery. The blade of the saber could be use from plasma and ceramic. It would not look like the lightsaber from the movie because it won't just be the handle that would be built but the blade too.
Okay, regarding the religion thing, it does not have to be a belief in a deity. But more of a philosophy such as the chivalry code of a knight or the bushido code of the samurai. Even modern soldier have a code.
It is obvious none of you have watch the show. The power of the lightsaber could use millions of small nano battery. The blade of the saber could be use from plasma and ceramic. It would not look like the lightsaber from the movie because it won't just be the handle that would be built but the blade too.
Professional curiousity, what Kenjitsu have you done? Where do you do your kendo?
Why don't you challenge a kendoka with a bokken, see if your kenjitsu kata will help you?
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
First of all, quantum singularities occur at quantum scales. You could fit gazillions in a light sabre handle.
Second, there is not even close to a theoretical model for light sabres, so there is no point in mentioning quantum singularities, since they have no relation at all to the hypothetical light sabre principles.
Actually, the answer there is yes. I once had a client company in the laser business where I worked in the research department as a software engineer. Semi conductor lasers are so light that they are all but imprevious to the mechanical motion of swining it around.
They don't yet have the same power as bigger lasers, but that is just a matter of ramping up. Even the laser diode from a DVD drive can burn through exposed skin in seconds and destroy retinas at long distances.
Even non semi conductor lasers can be ruggedized enough that swinging them around is not a problem. The US has experimented with weaponized gun-style lasers so that is not a big problem.
The much bigger roblem would be power supply, because it takes a lot of oomph to power a strong beam for any length of time. And presumably, if you block light sabre on light sabre and exert force, all that power has to come from the light source, where you can only fit a couple of batteries. For example the scene where one jedi is melting a blast door with his sabre? All that power would have to come from the battery pack.
Even if we would get that compact a power source, the real and biggest challenge would not be creating or powering the beam, but making it stop after a couple of feet. Nothing we can even dream of would make that possible. But even if we could make it do that... well... since the beam is weightless, why not make it 4 feet. Or 5? or simply use it from a distance to poke holes in something or someone.
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Bruno@MT
Senior Master
Only if they invent blasters generating laser beams that progress at humanly visible speeds. Given that otherwise, light travels at the speed of light, you won't see it coming.
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
If both use a bokken, there is really no saing which way it will go.
It will depend on the skill of the practisioner.
Miyamoto Mushashi left a pile of killed and crippled opponents in his wake, and he used only a bokken.
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
Wrong.
Unless those nano sized batteries all have the capacity of a real A type battery, they won't store enough power. Btw if all that power comes out of the handle, that handle is going to be mighty hot after a while.
Mentioning plasma is also besides the point, because you'd have to generate it inside the handle, and even if you could do that, there are 2 problems:
1) you couldn't make it stop at exactly the length of a sabre. it would gradually fade out over a long distance.
2) plasma are particles, moving at a finite speed. If you start swining the lightsabre, it won't remain a straight beam. It will look as if you are swinging around a large noodle.
3) light sabres can block other light sabres. plasma beams cannot.
And making a ceramic blade... well... that's not a light sabre. It's a glow in the dark ceramic sword.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Pmosian1, I'm not really sure what led you to start responding in such a way. For one thing, yes, many here have watched the films. Hell, man, I've made studies of the damn things, going through interviews with Joseph Campbell and the like...
But I really want to know why you responded to Ken's rather polite question with such an aggressively defensive post. All he did was ask which system of Kenjutsu you studied (that you found not as exciting as Kendo, too much kata), and where you studied Kendo. You then responded "Why don't you challenge a kendoka with a bokken, see if your kenjitsu kata will help you?". Really, man, uncalled for. Ken in no way intimated that Kendo was inferior, so your challenge is rather out of place. Do you care to actually answer his question now?
Oh, and there is a great difference between a religious belief and a simple code. Bushido and it's similar are not religions in any way at all, so attempting to link them is to misunderstand both quite badly.
But I really want to know why you responded to Ken's rather polite question with such an aggressively defensive post. All he did was ask which system of Kenjutsu you studied (that you found not as exciting as Kendo, too much kata), and where you studied Kendo. You then responded "Why don't you challenge a kendoka with a bokken, see if your kenjitsu kata will help you?". Really, man, uncalled for. Ken in no way intimated that Kendo was inferior, so your challenge is rather out of place. Do you care to actually answer his question now?
Oh, and there is a great difference between a religious belief and a simple code. Bushido and it's similar are not religions in any way at all, so attempting to link them is to misunderstand both quite badly.
Ummm OK. What does that have to do with the price of milk?
Dude, the JSA, (specifically iaido and kenjitsu), are a very small community, everybody knows each other personality or by reputation. Odds are good that I or my sensei knows whoever you learned your kenjitsu from. Regardless I like knowing what is going on in the community, who's doing what, and if its one I don't know I'm curious to learn more about it.
How long did you practice kenjitsu for? Yes its all kata, but when you've been practicing it for many years, you'd be surprised how fast and how subtle it can be.
?I have many friends who do kendo, if I had the time, I would do kendo, if i was going back in time, I would learn kendo. I understadn the value of the art.
Why don't you answer Ken's question.
You claim experience in both kendo and kenjutsu on a martial arts forum. You were asked where you train, which is not unreasonable. This has nothing to do with challenging a kendoka with a bokken.
Daniel
Sorry, from Wiki
According to Gillard (who would later go on to perform a cameo role in Revenge of the Sith), various lightsaber combat styles were devised for the prequels and intended to further characterize their practitioners.
I developed different styles for the characters, and gave each of them a flaw or a bonus. So with Obi, for instance, he's got a very business-like style Ā when he was younger he could border on the flashy and might twirl his lightsaber a bit, because he was taught by Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon was brash, that rubbed off on Obi and Obi then taught Anakin, who was way too old to learn anyway.[...]I think the style really worked well. The Jedi style of fighting is an amalgamation of all the great swordfighting styles. Melding them together is the difficult part Ā to move from a Kendo style to, say, Rapier requires a complete change in body and feet movement, and this must look effortless. The style moves seamlessly between the different disciplines, but remains technically correct throughout. It's unlike any other style of fighting and I think it's beautiful to watch.[13]
For The Phantom Menace, Gillard set out certain styles and faults for the saber-wielding characters.[14] He added that the Jedi's use of such "a short-range weapon" meant "they would have to be very good at it"; combining a variety of disciplines from various swordfighting styles to martial arts "with a touch of tennis and tree chopping", he created the style seen in the Episode I lightsaber battles.[15
I see many aspects of JSA in SW, but for the most part, its still too much flash. Entertaining, but flashy.
