JCVD

[Cri70]

Sorry, i don’t have access to Wikipedia from the location I’m at. Anyway, the wiki page must have links to its sources of information, if those sources are from recognized martial arts organizations that arrange tournaments and similar championship competitions I’ll be happy to take part of the links to those organizations webpages listing Mr..Van Varenberg.

The only info that I could google is that he supposedly competed in(and around?) Belgium between 1976-1980/(82)? in semi-contact format, that mean he competed between the age of 16-20/22 years old.

Kickboxing was introduced to Europe(Germany)around the time when Jean-Claude began competing .

However the info I can find on JCVD says he competed in semi-contact/(light contact) format, I’m not sure that was even on the map then in Europe when it comes to kick-boxing ?

But, as I understand JCVD trained in Shotokan karate and this styles own competition rule allow reasonable contact to body while it’s “skin” touch/contact to head/face - a kind of “semi-contact one could perhaps say. What I can find he’s supposedly has a 44 wins/4losses fight record, whatever that mean in competing in tournament competition?

I google Shotokan/karate organizations in Belgium, the little that comes up searching his both names on those webpages, nothing comes up. Also found a short list of the all times best kickboxers in Belgium, he’s not on there either. But I’m searching by writing in English, if I could write Flemish, French or German perhaps more results will come up ?

Compared with Dolph(Hans) Lundgren who’s martial arts/karate(kyukushin) career can easily be verified JCVD’s(Van Varenberg) seems a mystery.

Here's the relevant extract from Wikipedia page. Hopefully you can download Acrobat Reader.

Interesting that if you don't have access to Wikipedia and similar pages, you're essentially in the position we all were before the internet became widespread in 1996. In that time, it was very hard to get anything concrete on most things and stories and myths flourished as it was difficult to verify anything (or that anything had independent verification, such as Wikipedia). Nowadays you can literally learn general relativity and quantum mechanicsm from YouTube, if you're so inclined... (to say nothing of all the stuff that various autocrats don't want their subjects to know, of course).

Nothing of this is your fault of course.

But I mention it, because if JCVD fight record in Wikipedia was even remotely in doubt, it would be challenged very quickly - especially because he's a rather known person and occasionally subject of controversy. Just try to to put anything in Wikipedia, even minor, and you will see.

 

[Same Trick]

Isn't he French? Did he ever practice Savate?

During WW1 American soldiers eating fried potato sticks in France was actually in Belgium eating Belgian

 

[Same Trick]

There's no mystery on this end. I posted for you a list of his opponents, from a website you admitted is literally blocked from you by the Peoples Republic of China.

Van Damm never played a Soviet kickboxer. Where did you come up with that one?

From Wikipedia:

"On 8 March 1980, in Brussels, Belgium, he competed against his former teammate Patrick Teugels at the Forest National Arena on the undercard of the Dan Macaruso-Dominique Valera Professional Karate Association Light-Heavyweight World Championship bout.

Prior to this match, Teugels had defeated Van Damme twice by decision, including a match for the Belgium Lightweight Championship. Van Damme had a 1977 victory over Teugels. Teugels was coming off an impressive showing at the World Association of Kickboxing Organizations World Championships four months earlier, and was favored by some to win this match. According to reports, and Patrick Teugels' own interview (with photos), Teugels lost to Van Damme by TKO in the 1st round. Teugels was kicked in the nose and was unable to continue as a result. In a 2013 interview, Van Damme called this fight his most memorable match"

JCVD got his kickboxing break as a Soviet Russian



no retreat no surrender - Bing



This guys fight record seemingly show he only fought JCVD, I think they even were mates

Patrick Teugels | Fighter Page | Tapology

 

[Same Trick]

JCVD's amateur fighting and kickboxing record isn't up for debate. It's well established, and I doubt anyone else here has a better record.

Wikipedia is a reputable source. The fact that it's banned by dictatorial governments is a testament to that.

People admitting to posting from inside Communist China are not reputable. Whatever the subject.

Do you disagree?

Relax, I wrote earlier that JC studied Shotokan karate, in its own style specific kumite(free fighting) there’s allowed certain amount of contact- semi/light could perhaps be called, JC most certainly participated in such local karate tournaments, it seems he counted his wins and losses from such tournaments to create a fight record for some reasons…. It’s a quite unusual thing to do though, but he was just a kid back then dreaming of Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris. He was just 20 yrs old when he began his movie career ambitions first in HK/(China(which didn’t work out then) then in the US

 

[Sammy Naur]

Relax, I wrote earlier that JC studied Shotokan karate, in its own style specific kumite(free fighting) there’s allowed certain amount of contact- semi/light could perhaps be called, JC most certainly participated in such local karate tournaments, it seems he counted his wins and losses from such tournaments to create a fight record for some reasons…. It’s a quite unusual thing to do though, but he was just a kid back then dreaming of Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris. He was just 20 yrs old when he began his movie career ambitions first in HK/(China(which didn’t work out then) then in the US

Whatever.

JCVD got his kickboxing break as a Soviet Russian



no retreat no surrender - Bing



This guys fight record seemingly show he only fought JCVD, I think they even were mates

Patrick Teugels | Fighter Page | Tapology

"Mates"

You have been shown his amateur and professional records.

You're not in China. You're in Britain, New Zealand, or Australia.

When did you decide it was time to assail JCVD's kickboxing record? When you realized you didn't have one of your own?

You're going on Ignore.

 

[Sammy Naur]

Nothing of this is your fault of course.

Oh at this stage its entirely his fault.

This guy is a troll. And he's not Chinese, either.

Seriously, I have no tolerance for these types.

I think the moderators should look further into the person who started this thread.

"Same Trick", huh. No way he's in Anhui. He's playing us.

 

[opr1945]

"You're not in China. You're in Britain, New Zealand, or Australia."

"This guy is a troll. And he's not Chinese, either."



How did you learn this????

 

[Dirty Dog]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Opinions, even strongly differing opinions, are fine. Name calling and general rudeness is not.
Take it down a notch or two, and be polite, or the thread will be locked and accounts may be suspended or revoked.

Mark A Cochran
@Dirty Dog
MartialTalk senior moderator

 

[Same Trick]

Here's the relevant extract from Wikipedia page. Hopefully you can download Acrobat Reader.

Interesting that if you don't have access to Wikipedia and similar pages, you're essentially in the position we all were before the internet became widespread in 1996. In that time, it was very hard to get anything concrete on most things and stories and myths flourished as it was difficult to verify anything (or that anything had independent verification, such as Wikipedia). Nowadays you can literally learn general relativity and quantum mechanicsm from YouTube, if you're so inclined... (to say nothing of all the stuff that various autocrats don't want their subjects to know, of course).

Nothing of this is your fault of course.

But I mention it, because if JCVD fight record in Wikipedia was even remotely in doubt, it would be challenged very quickly - especially because he's a rather known person and occasionally subject of controversy. Just try to to put anything in Wikipedia, even minor, and you will see.

It’s a quite professional looking composed list, and as such it certainly at a quick glance will make most think it can’t be faulty.

But already at the very beginning of the list it faults, it states JC was on the winning Belgian team at 1979 European karate championship held in Brussels…..however as I stated previously, the European karate championship of 1979 was held in Helsinki, I know this because members of the dojo I was a student at participated in that championship, the Dutch team was the winner.

This German website(linked here under)is interesting in its report on 1979 world championships in Tampa Florida, where JC supposedly participated in the middleweight category.
In the Full-Contact middleweight event JC is not mentioned(as I mentioned previously in thread a Swede took the bronze there, and is mentioned in the article, so I think the text is absolutely correct)
In the semi-contact event lightweight division a Theugels from Belgium is mentioned, maybe same Theugels that JC in his own word “most memorable fight because he broke the guys nose”?? hmm, JC claim to be a middleweight and fight a lightweight??
Anyway back to the article, and here’s something interesting in the light-middleweight division an “Argentinier van Vaerenbergh” is mentioned as one of the loser to the eventual champ of that division.

WAKO 1979 Tampa World Championships

Did JC try to hijack an by name Argentinian doppelgänger ??

Anyway, about Wikipedia from a learned source-
“Sometimes inaccurate information is posted to Wikipedia on purpose, as a hoax. In some well-documented cases, this inaccurate information continues to spread when people take it from Wikipedia and use it in books and articles.”

What’s Wrong with Wikipedia? | Harvard Guide to Using Sources

usingsources.fas.harvard.edu

Lucky for JC that I live in China with no access to Wikipedia otherwise I might have cleaned up the inaccurate stuff on there

 

[Same Trick]

Whatever.

"Mates"

You have been shown his amateur and professional records.

You're not in China. You're in Britain, New Zealand, or Australia.

When did you decide it was time to assail JCVD's kickboxing record? When you realized you didn't have one of your own?

You're going on Ignore.

I have mates here in China that are from all over including England and Down Under

 

[Same Trick]

Oh at this stage its entirely his fault.

This guy is a troll. And he's not Chinese, either.

Seriously, I have no tolerance for these types.

I think the moderators should look further into the person who started this thread.

"Same Trick", huh. No way he's in Anhui. He's playing us.

I’m not Chinese, I’m a Swede living in China, Anhui province, Huainan city since 8 years, previously Dalian/Liaoning province 10 years to where I moved after almost 4 years in Beijing. Previous that several visits to China starting from 1988- That’s my China CV

About JCVD there just are missing bits in his CV or rather too many bits I just pointing them out

 

[Same Trick]

Opinions, even strongly differing opinions, are fine. Name calling and general rudeness is not.
Take it down a notch or two, and be polite, or the thread will be locked and accounts may be suspended or revoked.”


Yes, I think I should probably step back/tone down a little, I didn’t realize that there actually are people that are quite invested in JCVD’s image, I should have realized it cause I’ve encountered it from time to time when on the topic of Bruce Lee,
Van Damme has probably been something equal to BL in inspiring a generation or so new martial artists,….I realize this now

 

[Sammy Naur]

"You're not in China. You're in Britain, New Zealand, or Australia."

"This guy is a troll. And he's not Chinese, either."



How did you learn this????

It's just a guess based on word selections and language usage.

Either way, this thread is clearly a hit piece. There is no mystery here.

 

[Sammy Naur]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Opinions, even strongly differing opinions, are fine. Name calling and general rudeness is not.
Take it down a notch or two, and be polite, or the thread will be locked and accounts may be suspended or revoked.

Mark A Cochran
@Dirty Dog
MartialTalk senior moderator

Sorry sir. I take full responsibility for my tone and will do better going forward.

I just got the sense that I was being gaslit. I'm a bit disappointed in myself, being lured into such a pointless conversation as defending Jean Claud Van Damm, who is by all accounts a very nice guy with a proven competition record.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I followed the links from Wikipedia. It looks like JCVD’s point-fighting record is pretty well substantiated, but the evidence for his kickboxing career is slim at best.

How do you figure?

We were just told WAKO was the test. And JCVD has at least 4 WAKO victories. That's not enough for you?

I'm starting to wonder why the goal posts here keep moving.

JCVD has a proven fight record. Full, light, semi,whatever. Are we really going to debate this?

You know what? This whole thread was a big troll, wasn't it. Great job.

You might be confusing me with the person who is bashing JCVD. I was just clarifying what the available evidence from Wikipedia actually shows.

Here is the only link from the Wikipedia page that actually shows original sources verifying his fight career. The following quote summarizes the findings:

In 1984 and 1985, after Jean-Claude Van Damme was cast in New World Picture’s No Retreat, No Surrender, the STAR System ratings began an investigation of his competitive history. STAR confirmed that Jean-Claude Van Varenberg had been a successful tournament karate and team competitor in Europe. He had no professional kickboxing bouts. STAR did not document amateur kickboxing and could neither confirm nor dismiss any such bouts. However, as a member of the winning WAKO Belgian national team, Van Varenberg’s point karate accomplishments were substantial.

When citing Wikipedia, it's always a good idea to check out the underlying source links. It's also good to note sections that are marked as "citation needed" (in this case, JCVD's kickboxing record).

Anyone who wants can follow the link above which appears to be well-researched and includes photos of press clippings. From what I can tell:

1) JCVD had a well-documented successful career in light and semi-contact point fighting.
2) There is no record of him having professional kickboxing matches. If he had, those probably would have been found.
3) He may or may not have had amateur kickboxing matches. If he did, I can believe that there may not be available evidence online. I myself have a 1-1 record in amateur kickboxing from the early 2000's and I can find no record of it online. I can certainly believe that JCVD had amateur bouts from the 70s and 80s that are not documented.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

You might be confusing me with the person who is bashing JCVD. I was just clarifying what the available evidence from Wikipedia actually shows.

Here is the only link from the Wikipedia page that actually shows original sources verifying his fight career. The following quote summarizes the findings:


When citing Wikipedia, it's always a good idea to check out the underlying source links. It's also good to note sections that are marked as "citation needed" (in this case, JCVD's kickboxing record).

Anyone who wants can follow the link above which appears to be well-researched and includes photos of press clippings. From what I can tell:

1) JCVD had a well-documented successful career in light and semi-contact point fighting.
2) There is no record of him having professional kickboxing matches. If he had, those probably would have been found.
3) He may or may not have had amateur kickboxing matches. If he did, I can believe that there may not be available evidence online. I myself have a 1-1 record in amateur kickboxing from the early 2000's and I can find no record of it online. I can certainly believe that JCVD had amateur bouts from the 70s and 80s that are not documented.

Here's another quote from another one of the underlying Wikipedia links:

In our research of Van Damme the fighter, we talked to Mike Anders (the famous American Taekwondo stylist and karate event promoter, who won the All European Karate Championship four times and founded Professional Karate Magazine in 1972) and Geert Lemmens (a Belgian Shotokan teacher and European karate champion). They both agreed that although Jean Claude was not a big name in full contact or semi contact fighting, he was one of the up and coming fighters of the day. If he hadn’t chosen to take his martial arts to Hollywood, who knows how big a name he would have become. “He sure had great kicks, I remember,” said Lemmens. “He had this terrific jumping spin kick that he used in his fights. He even uses it in his movies today.”