Jack Dempsey's falling step.

[Buka]

What's your objection to the falling step? I don't use it all the time, but I like to mix it in occasionally if I want to put power in a jab.

Forgive me, I tend to separate boxing from Martial fighting and I shouldn't always do that. If you use a falling step with me I can see it coming, I don't care who uses it, and I'll sweep out your front leg just about every time. Yes, I know you can't do that in boxing, I used to get yelled at for doing that.

I know what you mean by putting power into the jab. I use a stiff arm kind of jab to do that, works better for me.

I worked with Rory Miller once, wasn't impressed with his falling step at all. Not even a little bit. I was polite back then, though.
I'm far less polite with things that I feel are a waste of time these days.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

- For jab, you may coordinate with leading foot landing, but
- for cross, you can coordinate with leading foot landing (aggressive approach), or the back foot landing (defensive approach).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you use a falling step with me I can see it coming, I don't care who uses it, and I'll sweep out your front leg just about every time.

Agree with you 100% there. That's the risk for using falling step. The moment that you have committed your jab with your falling step, it can be too late to avoid a foot sweep.

 

[Buka]

Agree with you 100% there. That's the risk for using falling step. The moment that you have committed your jab with your falling step, it can be too late to avoid a foot sweep.

What I used to use instead of a falling step was a variation of what they used to call a California Blitz. Sliding your front foot backwards as your rear foot explodes forward. It moves that point you have to pass (balance point we used to call it) in order to generate speed in a short close of distance.

It's how a lot of baseball players come out of the batters box to beat out an infield hit.

 

[wab25]

If you use a falling step with me I can see it coming, I don't care who uses it, and I'll sweep out your front leg just about every time.

Your objection to the falling step is that it has a counter?

What I used to use instead of a falling step was a variation of what they used to call a California Blitz.

Are you then saying that the California Blitz has no counter?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What I used to use instead of a falling step was a variation of what they used to call a California Blitz. Sliding your front foot backwards as your rear foot explodes forward. It moves that point you have to pass (balance point we used to call it) in order to generate speed in a short close of distance.

It's how a lot of baseball players come out of the batters box to beat out an infield hit.

People use falling step are honest people. Here I came. Move out of my way.

This is a very interested question. When you try to step in, should you advance your leading foot first, or should you advance your back foot first?

When you advance your

1. leading foot, the distance between you and your opponent has been reduced. If your opponent's leg cannot sweep you before, now his leg can sweep you.
2. back foot, the distance between you and your opponent has not changed. If your opponent's leg cannot sweep you before, now his leg still cannot sweep you.

IMO, 1 < 2.

 

[wab25]

Is this what you mean by "Californai Blitz?"

 

[geezer]

... If you use a falling step with me I can see it coming, I don't care who uses it, and I'll sweep out your front leg just about every time.

Yes. This is precisely why my old Chinese sifu's "Wing Tsun" system insisted on a back-weighted stance. If you dropped weight onto your lead leg, he would sweep you ...or just attack that weighted front leg (think Jon Jone's "oblique" kick).

On the other hand, My Escrima instructor Rene Latosa (RIP) used the Dempsey style"drop step" extensively to generate awesome short-power ...and not just when swinging a stick either.

For a long time, I worried about sweeps too, but as my training in Escrima progressed I learned that the weight drop could be done without a visible step. Hell it could even be done sitting ...in a chair or on the ground ...ort of a hip shifting buttock drop . Anyway, by minimizing the amount of movement involved, you could do two or three shots in a row, generating good power in each. Or at least Rene could.

So now that I'm stuck with thinking for myself, I've been working on integrating this Escrima/Boxing concept into my Wing Chun. I find I can integrate the forward weight drop not only into a frontal advance, but even more advantageously into a lateral "turning stance" or an "off line" diagonal step with a turn (or pivot). It really seems to work for me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

call a California Blitz. Sliding your front foot backwards as your rear foot explodes forward.

is the purpose of "sliding your front foot backwards" to confuse your opponent?

 

[marvin8]

What I used to use instead of a falling step was a variation of what they used to call a California Blitz. Sliding your front foot backwards as your rear foot explodes forward. It moves that point you have to pass (balance point we used to call it) in order to generate speed in a short close of distance.

It's how a lot of baseball players come out of the batters box to beat out an infield hit.

Not the same, but similar. Joe slides his front foot backwards giving more space—while creating a rear punch with more weight and torque behind it.

Xaana BrozaK
Jun 30, 2021

Balboa then seemingly began to pantomime a strike, and before he could complete his motion, the well-trained Schilling reflexively landed a short right hook, followed by a left, which knocked out the abrasive Florida Man who works as a busboy at an Outback Steakhouse:

 

[geezer]

Is this what you mean by "Californai Blitz?"

Dunno what Buka meant, but this clip shows an entirely different kind of technique and application from the "drop step" in Latosa Escrima. We used our drop-step primarily to generate "short-power" with little visible body movement ....not as a tool to "close the gap" as this seems to be.

That said, this looks fast and powerful.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Dunno what Buka meant, but this clip shows an entirely different kind of technique and application from the "drop step" in Latosa Escrima. We used our drop-step primarily to generate "short-power" with little visible body movement ....not as a tool to "close the gap" as this seems to be.

That said, this looks fast and powerful.

By drop step, are you referring to dropping your rear heel to push off and make your front foot/movement faster? If so, that is definitely a tool to close the gap. That's the only thing I would call a drop step to my knowledge in PTK..but I've also only got 5 years experience, and only the one style, so my knowledge is definitely lacking.

 

[Buka]

Your objection to the falling step is that it has a counter?



Are you then saying that the California Blitz has no counter?

No, not saying that at all. Everything has a counter. I just like the Blitz better than the drop step.

 

[Buka]

is the purpose of "sliding your front foot backwards" to confuse your opponent?

No, just to get you from point A to point B quicker.

 

[Buka]

Is this what you mean by "Californai Blitz?"

Yes, that’s it.

 

[Buka]

Your objection to the falling step is that it has a counter?



Are you then saying that the California Blitz has no counter?

I used to like throwing that blitz a lot. And I've had countered a lot, some of which were, unfortunately, memorable.

One time in a tournament I was fighting a guy that loved throwing a front leg sidekick as a counter. He was in a side stance loaded up to throw that kick. I threw the blitz anyway, seeing if I could beat him. bad idea.

On the blitz, you throw a backfist towards your opponents face on your initial movement to get his attention there, then follow with a reverse punch to the body. So I went at him and I threw it fast. Oh, God, he nearly cut me in half with a sidekick. I can almost still feel it.

But even worse, I had hit my instructor (at the time) with a really nice blitz. Caught him napping, I did.
So, the following week I threw it again, and man, I threw as fast a blitz that I've ever thrown that night. Smoking fast. He was waiting for it. He dropped to the floor so quick I never saw him move, tripped right over him. I got a face full of floor like you read about. Man, that really sucked.

So, yeah, there's a lot of counters to it. I've been countered in everything. That's how I learned. Good times.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So, the following week I threw it again, ... He was waiting for it.

After you have repeated the same footwork many times, your opponent can take advantage on it.

A wrestler's footwork is like walking on frozen lake. The falling step used in the striking art is the opposite of it.

Without moving back your front foot, will it be faster if you just move your back foot next to your front foot. You then move your front foot forward?

 

[windwalker099]

Championship fighting

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Is this what you mean by "Californai Blitz?"

Huh. I didn’t realize it had a name, but I’ve really integrated that into my striking game over the last year. (Largely inspired by guys like Dominic Cruz.)

I like to use it starting in orthodox, switching the feet as I throw a left cross instead of a jab, then pivot out with my back foot as I throw a right lead hook, but there are a lot of good applications.

 

[geezer]

By drop step, are you referring to dropping your rear heel to push off and make your front foot/movement faster?

No, not really the same thing. The drop or falling-step can be done moving forward a foot or more, or virtually standing in place. Here's an interesting video on it by Keith P. Myers who was once a very active, if somewhat cantankerous member of our forum. The first half is more about Dempsey's drop-step, then he get's off on the Bruce Lee/JKD footwork used to cover more ground:

Now, here is how Latosa dropped his weight striking ...in this instance with a stick. The video cuts off his feet, but you can see the torque and weight drop pretty clearly. Also, notice that he barely moves forward at all in this demo. This video was made back in the early 90s: