Jack Dempsey's falling step.

[WingChunChick]

Upon recommendation I just picked up a copy of Jack Dempsey's book on boxing. It's absolutely amazing but one thing that struck me is the falling step.

I was never taught about it in martial arts and it seems like many people forgot about it.

Rory Miller even mentions that is incredible handy for power generation in his book.

My question is why don't people teach it more often?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

From how I understand the falling step, it's not really it's own technique, just a form of power generation. And I would assume it is taught, but people don't generally name their power generation. I may be wrong about it though; it's been a while since I read that book (I'm assuming you're talking about championship fighting).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I was never taught about it in martial arts and it seems like many people forgot about it.

If you mean "falling step" is to coordinate foot landing with punching landing, it's already used in many CMA systems such as Chinese wrestling, long fist, Baji, Xingyi, XYLH, ...

By using the 6 harmony principle, the hand should be coordinate with the foot. This is pretty much a common sense in the northern CMA systems.

Here are examples that hand strike and foot landing are coordinated.

Long fist,

Chinese wrestling,

Baji,

XingYi,

XYLH,

 

[WingChunChick]

If you mean "falling step" is to coordinate foot landing with punching landing, it's already used in many CMA systems such as Chinese wrestling, long fist, Baji, Xingyi, XYLH, ...

By using the 6 harmony principle, the hand should be coordinate with the foot. This is pretty much a common sense in the northern CMA systems.

Here are examples that hand strike and foot landing are coordinated.

Long fist,

Chinese wrestling,

Baji,

XingYi,

XYLH,

That's not really what I meant by falling step. I meant the definition dempsey gives which is a pretty specific punching mechanic

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That's not really what I meant by falling step. I meant the definition dempsey gives which is a pretty specific punching mechanic

What's your definition of "falling step"?

You can coordinate your punch landing

1. before your foot landing,
2. during your foot landing,
3. after your foot landing.

Which method do you prefer?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What's your definition of "falling step"?

You can coordinate your punch landing

1. before your foot landing,
2. during your foot landing,
3. after your foot landing.

Which method do you prefer?

It's not a coordination thing, its how your momentum/weight is moving when you land. Bit misleading.
Found a video that explains how I remember it. Watch from 1:00 to 1:45

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think we are talking about the same thing.

All power generation come from body "coordination". The human body is like 3 springs, without coordination, each spring will compress and release independently. With coordination, all 3 springs can be compressed at the same time and released at the same time.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think we are talking about the same thing.

All power generation come from body "coordination". The human body is like 3 springs, without coordination, each spring will compress and release independently. With coordination, all 3 springs can be compressed at the same time and released at the same time.

Most likely. I've found that most of the time I disagree with you, a week later it either clicks what you're saying and I understand/agree, or a year later someone brings an old thread up, I see our disagreement, and find that I agree more with what you said than I said. It confuses the hell out of me.

 

[Buka]

Upon recommendation I just picked up a copy of Jack Dempsey's book on boxing. It's absolutely amazing but one thing that struck me is the falling step.

I was never taught about it in martial arts and it seems like many people forgot about it.

Rory Miller even mentions that is incredible handy for power generation in his book.

My question is why don't people teach it more often?

I think everyone teaches it, there’s just different terminology used. And I think @Kung Fu Wang’s examples were all spot on.

And if you haven’t experienced the concept in your own classes yet, I bet you will. I betcha’.

 

[marques]

Upon recommendation I just picked up a copy of Jack Dempsey's book on boxing. It's absolutely amazing but one thing that struck me is the falling step.

I was never taught about it in martial arts and it seems like many people forgot about it.

Rory Miller even mentions that is incredible handy for power generation in his book.

My question is why don't people teach it more often?

I was never taught it in these terms. I also found this thing in these terms by Rory Miller.

But in practice, it is very much what many people and I do all the time. Moving outside range, step in + punch. Similar: Moving outside range, (short) jumping kick.

It is teached in karate as well. Perhaps if you look for, you find it is more common than you thing. Probably with technical differences or just integrated in ‘combinations’, but it is not a secret.

 

[TSDTexan]

Upon recommendation I just picked up a copy of Jack Dempsey's book on boxing. It's absolutely amazing but one thing that struck me is the falling step.

I was never taught about it in martial arts and it seems like many people forgot about it.

Rory Miller even mentions that is incredible handy for power generation in his book.

My question is why don't people teach it more often?

The book to which you refer would be "championship boxing"?

about the falling step from this book... in his own words...

Now-without any preliminary movement-take a long, quick step forward with your left foot, toward the object at which your left toe had been pointing (Figure 4).

I emphasize: NO PRELIMINARY MOVEMENT BEFORE THE STEP. You unquestionably will be tempted to shift some of the weight from the left foot to the right foot just before you step. But don’t do it. Do nothing with the right foot, which is resting lightly on its ball, NO PRELIMINARY MOVEMENT! Just lift the left foot and LET THE BODY FALL FORWARD IN A LONG, QUICK STEP. The left foot should land flat and solid on the floor at the end of the step.

It is a quick, convulsive and extremely awkward step. Yet, it’s one of the most important steps of your fistic life; for that falling-forward lurch is the rough diamond out of which will be ground the beautiful, straight knockout jolt. It’s the gem-movement of straight punching. Try that falling step many times. Make certain, each time, that you start from a comfortably balanced position, that the body-weight is resting largely on the left leg, that the knees are slightly bent, that the arms are at your side, and that you make no preliminary movement with the right foot.

I call that forward lurch a “falling step.” Actually, every step in walking involves a small “fall.” Walking is a series of “falls.” But in this particularstep, the fall is exaggerated for two reasons: (1) your weight is well forward when you step off, and (2) the step is so long that it gives gravity a chance to impart unusual momentum to your body-weight. The solidity with which your left foot landed upon the floor was caused by your momentum.



So based on this... we can connect what Kungfu Wang had said. Which I have seen, myself in Northern CMA. The drop step.

another figure that Dempsey includes is the following:

What Dempsey is describing is how to use the inertial force of a falling weight and convert it to kinetic energy along a different plane. From a vertical to a horizontal.

He understood M×A=Force.

But this phenomenon or technological understanding is very present in CMA and also by Okinawan MAs. the proper drop step, or sinking step uses a forward redirection of the mass in motion.

Also... a little known fact, Jack Dempsey was a judo practitioner.

 

[Balrog]

It's not a coordination thing, its how your momentum/weight is moving when you land. Bit misleading.
Found a video that explains how I remember it. Watch from 1:00 to 1:45

I think we are all teaching something like that, we just have different terms. I refer to it as foot-and-hand timing. It's the idea of maximizing the formula for power by putting the body weight into a punch instead of just using your arms.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If MA training, if you can always coordinate 1 hand with 1 foot, you can reduce the technique complexity in 1/2. This coordination can not only apply for punch but also apply for set up as well.

 

[geezer]

Upon recommendation I just picked up a copy of Jack Dempsey's book on boxing. It's absolutely amazing but one thing that struck me is the falling step. My question is why don't people teach it more often?

This method of power generation is central to the Escrima system I train. But then, my main teacher, Rene Latosa was also a boxer.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My question is why don't people teach it more often?

This depend on how the form in your system is designed. If your form require you to stand on one spot and don't move around much, you will never have chance to experience the "foot and fist coordination". If your foot start to move on day one, it won't take you long to start to ask yourself, should I punch

1. before my foot landing?
2. during my foot landing?
3. after my foot landing?

Some MA systems only have drills and no forms. Since their drills are always repeated left and right, it's very easy for that MA system to emphasize on this principle.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

The Jack Dempsey book Championship Fighting is a great read for anyone into the striking arts

 

[Buka]

I never cared for the falling step. Liked when folks used it against me, though.

Never cared for Dempsy, either. Ducked all the good, black fighters, ducked Harry Greb who was going to smoke him.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I never cared for the falling step. Liked when folks used it against me, though.

What's your objection to the falling step? I don't use it all the time, but I like to mix it in occasionally if I want to put power in a jab.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't use it all the time, but I like to mix it in occasionally if I want to put power in a jab.

You don't need to use it in defense. It helps in offense when you need maximum power.

But if you are used to body coordination, to un-coordinate your body may make you to feel uncomfortable.

 

[marvin8]

Boxing with Wilson Pitts
Mar 15, 2021

I once used Jack Dempsey's book from 1946 on explosive punching to teach a class on this drop step technique at a University.