Its about the journey not the destination

[PhotonGuy]

"It's about the journey, no the destination."

Unless there is no destination. Then it becomes about finding a destination. It is only when the destination is reached that the importance of the journey is realized.

True. Wandering aimlessly with no destination is pointless. The destination might be a belt or it might be something else, but once you do reach a destination there are always more destinations.

 

[Transk53]

True. Wandering aimlessly with no destination is pointless. The destination might be a belt or it might be something else, but once you do reach a destination there are always more destinations.

Generally followed by a nice cup of tea

 

[PhotonGuy]

Another thing considering competitive swimming and if you're a swimmer or if you've got children that swim, maybe you or your children don't really care much to swim in meets with qualifying times. They might have enough of a desire that if they do quality they will go to the meets but they don't really have a burning desire. In that case they might not care to know the qualification times. Somebody with a burning desire to go to such meets will know the times they have to beat, they will find out usually by directly asking the head coach. There are other methods for knowing, you could ask other team mates or check the qualification times on the records that are made accessible by all swimmers, but somebody who really does want to go to such meets would know the times they have to beat somehow or another. Nevertheless, its always best to check with the head coach even if you do get the qualification times from some other source. You always want to get the proper information straight from the horse's mouth, or the sensei's mouth, or the coach's mouth, ect.

 

[ballen0351]

Hmmm they must do it differently. When we wanted to go to meets that that had qualifying times that we wanted to go to, we always knew the times we needed to get.

Why do the times matter to the swimmer. If your trying your best knowing the tines doesn't matter you do your best and your best us either fast enough or its not. If knowing the time males you swim harder then your not trying your best.

 

[drop bear]

I don't think I'd care much for that approach myself. The fight camp is meant to get a fighter to the current peak performance they are capable of for a short time. I prefer to think of rank as indicating a student's consistent day-to-day performance rather than their peak capability. (This is also why I'm not a big fan of belt testing in general.)

Be the best you that you can be at the time. It is only going to raise your day to day ability. So that when there is drop off its base line should still be a bit higher than if you had not put in 12 weeks of focused hard work into your ma training.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Be the best you that you can be at the time. It is only going to raise your day to day ability. So that when there is drop off its base line should still be a bit higher than if you had not put in 12 weeks of focused hard work into your ma training.

Oh, I like the idea of having the intensive training camp. I just would rather not base promotions around it.

 

[drop bear]

Oh, I like the idea of having the intensive training camp. I just would rather not base promotions around it.

What would you set as the goal? It would be nice to have achieved something at the end of it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Why do the times matter to the swimmer. If your trying your best knowing the tines doesn't matter you do your best and your best us either fast enough or its not. If knowing the time males you swim harder then your not trying your best.

If anything a swimmer is going to know their own time. Whenever you swim an event your time is shown on the big electronic scoreboard so you are going to know your fastest time and a good swimmer is going to want to beat that, get it as low as possible so they're always getting a better time. As for knowing the qualifying time for a special meet, if you want to go it makes sense you should know the time you need to get in order to go. If you don't want to go than there is no reason for you to know that, but if anything, a swimmer will always be competing with their own best time so that is a time you will know and try to beat.

 

[Zero]

Why do the times matter to the swimmer. If your trying your best knowing the tines doesn't matter you do your best and your best us either fast enough or its not. If knowing the time males you swim harder then your not trying your best.

Agreed on one level but then also, psychology can be a funny thing and for whatever reason, knowing what that time is or having a running mate (I come from athletics not swimming, the pool is for little fishes ) can actually get you a better pb - if that makes sense.

Also, knowing the qualifying time means if you are looking to peak in a season, you know what you need to beat to get selected from that event but can also avoid burn out so you just pip the time and save up for a later meet that counts.

This approach does not necessarily translate easily or well into martial arts or sport MA competing. Even knowing the weaknesses of an opponent in advance and being confident they are at a "lesser" level than you, you can always get surprised by that "lesser" fighter if you take the peddle of the gas or they get in a lucky shot. If you are easing off in a fight, unless it is a strategy to tire them and then down them or run down the clock where you have high point different, my approach has been to take out a lesser fighter quicker rather than prolong it and risk unneeded injury or upset.

This is different to as Tony says about training camps and peaking for a certain fight, which I agree with. It is hard and actually can be detrimental to stay at peak (mental and physical) fight level at all times, you will slowly burn out and pick up injuries.

 

[Zero]

What would you set as the goal? It would be nice to have achieved something at the end of it.

I should really let Tony come back but I think his point was that the end goal is the fight at the end of the training camp, that is the competitive fighter's goal, to get to the fight in peak condition, and then of course win that fight!

I have never been in a MA style that grades at the end of some specific training or "away" camp, or where you pick up a grade from that specific camp, not saying it isn't done though...

If the [12 week] (which would be bloody long) camp is just for physical conditioning, then you will come out the other end a mean machine but after a while, regardless, your condition will drop off. What you don't maintain, you don't keep. And as said, it may not be overall beneficial to try to stay at that peak physical level, something will give sooner or later.

If you spent that camp focusing on skill improvement then at the end you would come out a much better [kicker], etc in that certain technique(s) you had been devoting focus to. You would carry that improved or new skill for a long time, if not forever. But to stay top notch at its execution and speed you would of course need to keep maintenance training up - but not necessarily to the level as devoted during the camp.

 

[PhotonGuy]

This approach does not necessarily translate easily or well into martial arts or sport MA competing. Even knowing the weaknesses of an opponent in advance and being confident they are at a "lesser" level than you, you can always get surprised by that "lesser" fighter if you take the peddle of the gas or they get in a lucky shot. If you are easing off in a fight, unless it is a strategy to tire them and then down them or run down the clock where you have high point different, my approach has been to take out a lesser fighter quicker rather than prolong it and risk unneeded injury or upset.

It does translate when it comes to belt requirements. Knowing the requirements for the next belt is like knowing the qualifying time for a special event in swimming that you want to be in. However, belt requirements and a student's level of proficiency in various techniques and forms isn't as cut and dry as making a certain qualifying time, therefore I would say its even more crucial and there is even more stuff you would need to ask your sensei about advancement and belt requirements than you would have to ask a swim coach about qualifying for a special event. That is, if you want to advance in belt rank or if you want to swim in a special event.

 

[Zero]

It does translate when it comes to belt requirements. Knowing the requirements for the next belt is like knowing the qualifying time for a special event in swimming that you want to be in. However, belt requirements and a student's level of proficiency in various techniques and forms isn't as cut and dry as making a certain qualifying time, therefore I would say its even more crucial and there is even more stuff you would need to ask your sensei about advancement and belt requirements than you would have to ask a swim coach about qualifying for a special event. That is, if you want to advance in belt rank or if you want to swim in a special event.

I don't know about this one PhotonGuy, I am going to have to think that over, at least from my perspective...

The process to each belt is generally a long one, relative to each phase. I never really thought, "now what is the bare minimum I need to pip this belt test"? I am not aware of others with this approach either, normally (and from my own experience, and especially when I was younger) students (not always rightly) are dying to soak up and take on as much as they can and beyond the level they are at or about to grade for...

Also, I never really went into "training camp" mode for a belt grading, unlike with tournaments. While you may be working your kata more towards a grading, generally you should have all the skills and understanding already to hand leading up to a grading - I never saw it as something one had to "peak" for.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I never really thought, "now what is the bare minimum I need to pip this belt test"?

Me neither. When I test for a belt I don't just want to fulfill the bare minimum and scrape by, I want to far exceed it and blow it out of the water.

Also, I never really went into "training camp" mode for a belt grading, unlike with tournaments. While you may be working your kata more towards a grading, generally you should have all the skills and understanding already to hand leading up to a grading - I never saw it as something one had to "peak" for.

Well no. As I said earlier a belt grading is based on a student's accumulated knowledge and skill, not on peak performance that you train for and do as a one time thing, although some belt tests are run like that. For instance, at this one place when you test for black belt it starts with a two mile run. You should, however know the standards you have to meet. Not all instructors will tell you when you're ready without you asking first so that's why its important to ask. Quite often, the same techniques are on a test for a higher belt that are on a test for a lower belt, but for the higher belt tests those techniques have to be performed to a much greater skill level. In this case, skill level is not something you peak at and perform as a one time thing, its something that is obtained and then maintained, much like with math when you learn the basics, and then you become more and more proficient with that and use it in more advanced stuff and you maintain your skill without "peaking" for a one time performance.

 

[drop bear]

I don't know about this one PhotonGuy, I am going to have to think that over, at least from my perspective...

The process to each belt is generally a long one, relative to each phase. I never really thought, "now what is the bare minimum I need to pip this belt test"? I am not aware of others with this approach either, normally (and from my own experience, and especially when I was younger) students (not always rightly) are dying to soak up and take on as much as they can and beyond the level they are at or about to grade for...

Also, I never really went into "training camp" mode for a belt grading, unlike with tournaments. While you may be working your kata more towards a grading, generally you should have all the skills and understanding already to hand leading up to a grading - I never saw it as something one had to "peak" for.

Which makes grading's look like they do. When you see high level grading's that have a certain cringe factor.

When black belts spar three guys and are exhausted because they are not conditioned for the test. They turn basically to crap and everybody cheers them on as if they have done something special.

 

[drop bear]

Now I get it. She is tired. I understand the grading may have gone on for a long time and been really hard. But that level of effort should not have come as a surprise. When dedicated training towards that goal would have helped her.

 

[Zero]

Now I get it. She is tired. I understand the grading may have gone on for a long time and been really hard. But that level of effort should not have come as a surprise. When dedicated training towards that goal would have helped her.

I don't want to pick on anyone having a go for sure! I have seen a lot of shockers but each to their own.
Personally I have always put in considerable conditioning training outside of class and, when not working the bag or sparring, have been in the gym or running in the hills, etc. Therefore, there has never been the need to "peak" for any gradings on the physical side. I have always been a bit of a freak and love training and pushing myself, I start getting a bit twitchy when I haven't been able to go for a run or been able to go to the dojo for a few days due to work.

 

[Transk53]

Wish those bloody Sat-Navs knew the difference between the journey and destination.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Wish those bloody Sat-Navs knew the difference between the journey and destination.

The destination is somewhere you're going, a place you want to get to. The journey is the trip to that place you want to get to. Last month I drove through Nevada. Nevada, specifically Pahrump NV was my destination. Driving through various other states such as Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, and Utah was the journey.

And I must say parts of the journey were beautiful. Particularly Colorado. Great scenery. Snow capped mountains and all these mountain communities. But it doesn't get like that until you're west of Denver. East of Denver its much like Kansas, very flat and wide open spaces of nothing.

 

[Zero]

The destination is somewhere you're going, a place you want to get to. The journey is the trip to that place you want to get to. Last month I drove through Nevada. Nevada, specifically Pahrump NV was my destination. Driving through various other states such as Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, and Utah was the journey.

And I must say parts of the journey were beautiful. Particularly Colorado. Great scenery. Snow capped mountains and all these mountain communities. But it doesn't get like that until you're west of Denver. East of Denver its much like Kansas, very flat and wide open spaces of nothing.

Any photos? Sounds like a great trip.

 

[Transk53]

The destination is somewhere you're going, a place you want to get to. The journey is the trip to that place you want to get to. Last month I drove through Nevada. Nevada, specifically Pahrump NV was my destination. Driving through various other states such as Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, and Utah was the journey.

And I must say parts of the journey were beautiful. Particularly Colorado. Great scenery. Snow capped mountains and all these mountain communities. But it doesn't get like that until you're west of Denver. East of Denver its much like Kansas, very flat and wide open spaces of nothing.

Thinking about it, I remember the great scenery in the movie "Paul" Simon Pegg (Scotty ST re-boot) and Nick Frost. Some of the areas was the usual UFO folklore areas. Anyway, the wooded areas in the movie were stunning.