Its about the journey not the destination

[PhotonGuy]

@Tez3

STFU and train.....hmmmm. If you are alluding to one person's insistence to just talk and not train, or labor the point of 'using their mouths to train' here in this forum and if you are sick and tired of seeing it then there are two things you may consider doing. One is to ignore it and more importantly, two, leave.

Thank you for spelling it out.

@Tez3Back in the dojo where students pay to learn, if it does get to a point where a student is obviously not satisfied with his or her training then recommend another school, its their money after all and obviously again the teacher has failed to set and meet expectations.

Switching schools might not be a bad idea for a student who is just starting out in the martial arts but a student who has been going to a particular school for years and has put in tremendous time and effort might not want to switch.

Another option could be for the student to discuss to the sensei why they're dissatisfied and perhaps come to an arrangement. Sometimes it can be a simple misunderstanding that can be easily cleared up.

In my books martial arts student failure like a 'tango' takes two. The failure of the student is the failure of the teacher. So when it does come to STFU and train its perhaps time.

Cheers mate!

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

True. And communication is key to good teaching and good learning. Shutting up isn't exactly the best way to communicate.

 

[Geo]

I'm afraid you have misunderstood what I had written, I'm not in the least fed up so advice isn't needed. I'm also not your 'mate' I'm my husband's mate, no one else's.

I was merely pondering that the fact someone hadn't actually said that, plenty have said shut up and train though. I assume you have come late to this saga ( which is continued on a few other threads btw)? It is a saga, on going and never ending and that in itself is interesting, so I'm not going anywhere however your politely worded your 'get lost' to me is.

Hi Tez3.

First if all regarding my reference to you as 'mate'. Here in Australia it is a universally accepted term of friendship and endearment. It is usually used in non confrontational engagements.

It is difficult to ascertain ones gender in anonymous forums like this unles you include a gender identifier in your avatar. I personally don't think its necessary.

You obviously took offence to the term that I used, I'm sorry you feel that way but no offence meant. I too am married with three kids all doing martial arts and are instructors in their own right. My wife is the only one who doesn't do martial arts so we protet her like a precious Faberge' egg.

Yes I have come late into the saga sorry for the unsolicited comments, didn't mean to give advice just voicing an opinion.

Thanks very much and have a great day. I'll take my seat back in the line and watch the sparring.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

 

[Tez3]

Hi Tez3.

First if all regarding my reference to you as 'mate'. Here in Australia it is a universally accepted term of friendship and endearment. It is usually used in non confrontational engagements.

It is difficult to ascertain ones gender in anonymous forums like this unles you include a gender identifier in your avatar. I personally don't think its necessary.

You obviously took offence to the term that I used, I'm sorry you feel that way but no offence meant. I too am married with three kids all doing martial arts and are instructors in their own right. My wife is the only one who doesn't do martial arts so we protet her like a precious Faberge' egg.

Yes I have come late into the saga sorry for the unsolicited comments, didn't mean to give advice just voicing an opinion.

Thanks very much and have a great day. I'll take my seat back in the line and watch the sparring.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

No I didn't take offence hence my putting the little smiley with the sentence, people often assume gender I was just pointing out I wasn't a mate, a term often used here as sarcasm.

I wasn't telling anyone to STFU I was just saying I was surprised no one had, and I am surprised. the reason there has been a lot of talk about shutting up and training is because the same point is being rehashed over and over again, it's literally flogging a dead horse ( we used to have a very good emoticon for that) everyone's agreed that asking questions is fine, at the right time and there's no reason you can't ask why you aren't being considered for grading, everyone's agreed that talking to your instructor is fine just not in the middle of them teaching something, everyone's agreed that knowing when you can grade is a good idea but that it's also down to you training hard to be ready. We've even had a thread from the OP on why he keeps repeating the same thing over and over until he gets the answer he wants, his words not mine.

 

[Zero]

@Zero

I appreciate your candor in skewering freedom of expression with responsibility. It's good to know that beneath all those words that you wrote you actually concur with my post.

I just had a chuckle when you had to bring in the United Nations into it....lighten up mate.

Let us bring back the discussion into your dojo and my dojang. Nobody likes a loud mouth let alone a smart **** anywhere anytime. I guess in a nutshell and in very simple terms this is what you are trying to impart and I agree completely.

Be that as it may nowadays some instructors or martial arts teachers still try to put on an autocratic clout for fear of being questioned if not exposed of their inadequacies first as a teacher then second as a martial artist. I don't sucscribe to the infallibility of martial arts teachers inside the dojo or the dojang due to basic human flaws.

In my dojang I always encourage my more mature students to ask themselves if they are growing as a martial artist or if they are still on the path of their chosen journey and that if it comes to a point that they can no longer grow or move forward then its time for us to part ways.

It doesn't have to come to "Shut and just train".

Peace be with you.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

Geo, mate, if I lightened up anymore, gravity would cease to have an effect on me.

I simply must have got all excited by your fervent beating of the drum for the UN and its Art 19 and as a champion of free speech (all beautiful things of course). Let's share some beers sometime and discuss the great ideals but irrelevancies of so much of that thing called "international law".

But clearly we seem to be on the same page on this one...

...although as said by Tez, for some people and sometimes (and after sometime) it really can be just a matter of SUAJT (I hope that's the right abbreviation) or move on.

I just don't remember ever having suffered this constant on-going issue as to verification from others or need for such guidance from my sensei/teacher/seniors as to what I needed (or need (hey, even I have a few things left to learn or at least to comprehend more fully)) to do. Particularly as to getting my hands on the next belt level. It always seemed pretty clear what was required. There's never really much mystery as to what is required to advance in MA, be that in competitive kumite/tournaments or kata/displays or obtaining the next grade.

 

[Zero]

Hi Tez3.

First if all regarding my reference to you as 'mate'. Here in Australia it is a universally accepted term of friendship and endearment.

Yeah, even though Tez has clarified it was not of issue to her, I remember way back in the day when I did an OE and spent some time pulling pints in a pub in London, I would call patrons "mate" as a purely friendly term (such as "there you go mate" as I set the pint glass down) and some of them did take it the wrong way, I had to explain to them and try to stop myself doing it as some did take it as I was either not being personal with them or maybe being a bit flippant. Funny old world.

 

[Danny T]

As an instructor I want my students to do well and to progress.
Within that progression there is a required level of proficiency and ability in knowledge and skill.

In over 40 years of training and instructing I have found most students, when it comes to testing, feel they are not ready when I have recommended them for testing as to skill. The material to be tested upon is listed for each level of testing and most know it however, the biggest discrepancy is the subjective aspect of skill level.

Many know the material however, the skill level for the rank is where one either feels they are better than they are or they feel they are not ready. I find more concerns arise when the student feels their skill level is better than it should be and is the area many instructors have the ‘”just train; when you are ready you will be asked to test” attitude.

 

[Steve]

Describing your background in a sport, skill, or activity such as martial arts is not a challenge.

Who knows but Tez what she's actually referring to? But based on context and her pattern of communication, I'm guessing she's trying to be clever by referencing some obscure, colloquial meaning of "fill you in."

She's just enjoying getting you twisted up, PhotonGuy, and my advice would be for you to just ignore her.

 

[Tez3]

Describing your background in a sport, skill, or activity such as martial arts is not a challenge.

It is when you won't tell us yours........

 

[pgsmith]

It is when you won't tell us yours........

You do realize Tez, that he doesn't want to share his background in the martial arts because the majority of folks that he repetitively argues with have been training for quite a bit longer than he's been alive.

 

[Tez3]

You do realize Tez, that he doesn't want to share his background in the martial arts because the majority of folks that he repetitively argues with have been training for quite a bit longer than he's been alive.

I believe you are right, I dislike being challenged to provide my credentials by someone who refuses consistently to say what his are, that's why I said challenges aren't allowed on here, because he did say it in a manner that more than implied he was challenging my experience, he clearly didn't take anything I said seriously.

 

[pgsmith]

My kids used to know everything and refused to take anything I said seriously when they were teenagers also. It's amazing how much smarter I became once they got a bit older though.

 

[PhotonGuy]

It is when you won't tell us yours........

You didn't ask. But if you want me to fill you in, my primary style, Shito Ruy Karate, a style similar to Shotokan, I've been training in for possibly longer than you've been alive. Aside from that I've also got about four years of Judo year of Tae Kwon Do, two years of Muai Thai, and aside from that I've trained here and there in numerous other styles, including styles with weapons.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I wasn't telling anyone to STFU I was just saying I was surprised no one had, and I am surprised. the reason there has been a lot of talk about shutting up and training is because the same point is being rehashed over and over again, it's literally flogging a dead horse ( we used to have a very good emoticon for that) everyone's agreed that asking questions is fine, at the right time and there's no reason you can't ask why you aren't being considered for grading, everyone's agreed that talking to your instructor is fine just not in the middle of them teaching something, everyone's agreed that knowing when you can grade is a good idea but that it's also down to you training hard to be ready. We've even had a thread from the OP on why he keeps repeating the same thing over and over until he gets the answer he wants, his words not mine.

On the contrary, there've been some people who have said its disrespectful to ask questions about rank. You obviously don't take that position based on the answers you've given before including this one but not everybody is like that. So with the point that as you say I keep rehashing over and over again, its addressed to those who say you shouldn't ask about rank or why you're not being graded and Im not trying to get them to change their answers rather Im asking them based on their philosophy, how would they know if they can test if they don't ask?

 

[PhotonGuy]

Who knows but Tez what she's actually referring to? But based on context and her pattern of communication, I'm guessing she's trying to be clever by referencing some obscure, colloquial meaning of "fill you in."

She's just enjoying getting you twisted up, PhotonGuy, and my advice would be for you to just ignore her.

I like chatting and debating with Tez, its like a game of Chess.

 

[Tez3]

You didn't ask. But if you want me to fill you in, my primary style, Shito Ruy Karate, a style similar to Shotokan, I've been training in for possibly longer than you've been alive. Aside from that I've also got about four years of Judo year of Tae Kwon Do, two years of Muai Thai, and aside from that I've trained here and there in numerous other styles, including styles with weapons.

Wow you've been training for over 62 years, how very cool!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Wow you've been training for over 62 years, how very cool!

LOL

Do you think the kids will kids ever learn

 

[Transk53]

Nope.

 

[Tez3]

As Photonguy must be in his seventies at least to have trained longer than I've been alive, I think if I were him I'd have wanted a black belt long before now. Surely he'd have worked out the answers to his questions by now.

 

[Steve]

I like chatting and debating with Tez, its like a game of Chess.

Lol. That's fine. As long as you're having fun.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Going back over your posts over time it seems you are put out that you haven't gained a belt you think you should of in the time you think you should have.

Actually, PG got the black belt promotion he was concerned about years ago. (Although the promotion was delayed because of a misunderstanding about the need to sign up for the test.) What he seems to keep obsessing about is the proper process for communicating expectations.

everyone's agreed that asking questions is fine, at the right time and there's no reason you can't ask why you aren't being considered for grading, everyone's agreed that talking to your instructor is fine just not in the middle of them teaching something, everyone's agreed that knowing when you can grade is a good idea but that it's also down to you training hard to be ready.

Actually, there have been some significantly different opinions expressed in the various threads PG has started on the subject, some of them contradicting the ideas you just listed. Some of PG's postings seem to be in reaction to those opinions.

I dislike being challenged to provide my credentials by someone who refuses consistently to say what his are,

PG has detailed his training background more than once and I've never noticed him refusing to do so.

You didn't ask. But if you want me to fill you in, my primary style, Shito Ruy Karate, a style similar to Shotokan, I've been training in for possibly longer than you've been alive. Aside from that I've also got about four years of Judo year of Tae Kwon Do, two years of Muai Thai, and aside from that I've trained here and there in numerous other styles, including styles with weapons.

PhotonGuy, you definitely pulled out the " training in for possibly longer than you've been alive" card on the wrong person.

Actually, this is a hazardous forum to make that claim in general, unless you know exactly who you are talking to. I've been training for 34 years now and there are still a number of people here who can consider me to be a young whippersnapper.