is there a Native American Indian martial art ?

[sgtmac_46]

Yeah, but you'd be wrong.

The Mohawk's reservations were chartered for them by King George II.Their language and much of their culture has remained intact, and, if you know where to look, you can find practitioners of the gajewah, or ball-headed club, who learned their skills from their fathers, and whose fathers learned it from their fathers before them, and so on back to before the time of King George.....

Much can be gleaned about the tactics by the weapons, as you mention the ball-headed club, and the subsequently adopted gunstock war clubs (which, of course, were influenced by European muskets).

Is there any current repository of this knowledge of those skills that can trace it's lineage to that time period?

 

[jarrod]

With the exception, as previously stated, of the Aztecs, Mayans and Incas, who with a more advanced and settle civilization would have had specialized occupations at arms, standing full time military that likely would have had some manner of codified and drilled tactics of war.........and given the constant need of attacking neighboring tribes for tribute, slaves and prisoners for sacrifice, they wouldn't have gotten quite a bit of experience. The taking of prisoners for tribute, further, would suggest that they would have developed specialized skills for subduing prisoners without killing them.

Unfortunately we may never know what those were.

i should have specified that i was talking about north-of-the-border indians.

i think that often the tactics for subduing prisoners consist of showing them you're superior weaponry &/or numbers.

jf

 

[sgtmac_46]

i should have specified that i was talking about north-of-the-border indians.

i think that often the tactics for subduing prisoners consist of showing them you're superior weaponry &/or numbers.

jf

I suspect that a few of their enemies were well aware of the fate that awaited them, and probably required a little more subduing than that.

Hell, we can't get many folks to surrender peacefully in this day and age, and all that awaits them is a night in jail and a $500.00 bond!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

From what I have seen in almost all the native martial arts that have tried to sprout up recently the founder or leader was also very much trained in an asian system. I can remember a man in Mexico trying to start some thing up after he had been trained in Modern Arnis. The list goes on. Now I am sure that there are some out there but........ I would be very careful before I would give it an authentic seal.

Now if you are looking for a game that was played by Native Americans that has martial applications look no further than Lacrosse. While the current version of it is a little different than what was played by Native Americans it is still a martial game in many ways.

As some one mentioned before hunting skills were paramount back in the day and are martial in many ways and served as martial training as well.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I would imagine that they do exist, but would also imagine teachers would be very suspicious/wary of teaching or advertising to anyone of non-Native descent.

Given the course of history, I'd gather that you're dead on. Unfortunately, the best way to preserve it is most likely to codify it and carefully diseminate it to the non-Native world.

Which of course requires a level of trust in the cultural group that wiped out your own culture's way of life less than two centuries ago and who have never recovered.

Given how bitter Korea is (justifiably) over being occupied by Japan for fifty years or so, I can only imagine how the native Nations must feel towards US society; Korea got to keep their land, while the native nations were simply forced onto land that the US government didn't consider useful.

Daniel

 

[Guardian]

now it gots wondering bout the aztecs and the mayans since they were very war like people in there time

mayan martial art

or aztec martial art

incan martial art

Not every style has to be considered a Martial Art, some are just fighting styles/systems pure and simple, they had nothing to do with the MAs at all.

 

[jarrod]

Not every style has to be considered a Martial Art, some are just fighting styles/systems pure and simple, they had nothing to do with the MAs at all.

could you explain what you mean? i've always considered a fighting style the same as a martial art.

jf

 

[jks9199]

could you explain what you mean? i've always considered a fighting style the same as a martial art.

jf

I think he's making a distinction between the high falutin' martial ARTS ()and more direct functional fighting approaches like boxing or police/military hand-to-hand that don't have a lot of the philosophy and spiritual aspects.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Given the course of history, I'd gather that you're dead on. Unfortunately, the best way to preserve it is most likely to codify it and carefully diseminate it to the non-Native world.

Which of course requires a level of trust in the cultural group that wiped out your own culture's way of life less than two centuries ago and who have never recovered.

Given how bitter Korea is (justifiably) over being occupied by Japan for fifty years or so, I can only imagine how the native Nations must feel towards US society; Korea got to keep their land, while the native nations were simply forced onto land that the US government didn't consider useful.

Daniel

The difference, however, is that most native societies weren't the formal and stratified societies of many old asian cultures like Korea. I suspect the real problem is any lack of formal internal codification.

Native cultures likely didn't look at their techniques and tactics as something to be secured for future posterity....but just the way things are done easier, to be taught directly their children to gain an advantage.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I think he's making a distinction between the high falutin' martial ARTS ()and more direct functional fighting approaches like boxing or police/military hand-to-hand that don't have a lot of the philosophy and spiritual aspects.

If it doesn't involve a costume, colorful belts, and come from Japan, Korea or China....it can't be a real 'Martial ART'.

 

[Omar B]

could you explain what you mean? i've always considered a fighting style the same as a martial art.

jf

Can't wait to hear this one too. ::cracks open a beer::

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Not every style has to be considered a Martial Art, some are just fighting styles/systems pure and simple, they had nothing to do with the MAs at all.

Really, is martial "art" even the most accurate english rendering? Or was the term simply more appealing to western society?

Most, if not of the "arts" that were initially brought to the west would have been rendered better as "martial way," rather than art, as 'do' does not translate as 'art.' Even the word that translates better as 'art' is really more indicative of skill.

It is the 'do' that implies all of the spiritual and personal development aspects that we associate with TMA, not 'art.'

The problem is that when we in the west hear the word 'art', we associate it with fine arts. Art as a term in the west has connotations that go well beyond, and indeed, often don't even touch on skill. Very little of what I see promoted as "art" these days requires any skill at all, provided you can spout off enough bull and have the right political outlook and social connections. Oh, and suckers with money helps too.

But we do have the connotation of 'art' in the west as pertaining to skill. We say things like, 'well there's an art to doing it correctly' or 'that athlete's performance is beyond just skillful, that is art!' Art in the sense that Captain Sullenberger's ability to handle that jet was 'artful' or a Nascar driver's ability to thread a vehicle the size of a full sized modern car through a field of other full sized cars at over a hundred and fifty miles an hour is an art.

In the sense of how an 'art' or jutsu differs from a 'way' or a do, then fighting systems without all of the cultural trappings are most definitely martial arts... if by 'art' you mean skill.

Daniel