Is the "Old Way" gone?

[just2kicku]

I would just like to get everyones thought on this. How many still teach and train the "Old Way"? I mean the bloody, something might get broken, old way.
When I was a kid, I worked out! If I got a bloody nose or got busted up, I had to deal with it. All my parents would say is "practice more."
Now I hear, "They're hitting hard, or I can't do this it's hard," from the adults.
From the parents I hear, "Johnny had a bad day today, could you go easy on him, or I think that other boy is hitting Johnny too hard."
I left MA for a while but eventually found my way back. I may not have liked having to do all that stuff as a kid, but I did it.(Fear of my dad and uncle mostly)
Most parents want to hear how good their child is doing, not that he's not progressing cause he can't get anything right cause he doesn't practice at home and it's all your fault.
I would like to get your opinions on this, cause it's sure not the way I remember as a kid.

Thanks, Joe

 

[Flying Crane]

I'd say you are more likely to find the type of training you describe in the garage-dojos and backyards and small groups. You will also find it in the serious gyms that specifically train for hard-contact competition venues.

In the storefront commercial schools, I suspect it's a lot less common to find intense training. Probably not non-existant, but certainly not the norm.

 

[Steve]

I think that if kids routinely get bloody noses at class, the adult supervision is bordering on negligent. Personally. I am all for contact, but it needs to be responsible and appropriate for the age of the kids involved.

In other words, I think these kinds of schools went extinct for a reason.

 

[just2kicku]

I think that if kids routinely get bloody noses at class, the adult supervision is bordering on negligent. Personally. I am all for contact, but it needs to be responsible and appropriate for the age of the kids involved.

In other words, I think these kinds of schools went extinct for a reason.

These kids are 10 -13. Doing techniques I tell them to punch to the face, if they get hit,it's their fault for not blocking. I just think parents tend to baby their kids to much these days. I believe its got to be as real as possible.

 

[David Weatherly]

I'd say you are more likely to find the type of training you describe in the garage-dojos and backyards and small groups. You will also find it in the serious gyms that specifically train for hard-contact competition venues.

In the storefront commercial schools, I suspect it's a lot less common to find intense training. Probably not non-existant, but certainly not the norm.

I believe you're right. It's very unlikely that you'll find that kind of training at the average dojo. Mostly because it's just not what people want. Combined with our lawsuit happy country, it just wouldn't be very profitable to run a large school that trained old school.

 

[terryl965]

There are still some schools and certain classes that will allowthis type of training, but for the most part Martial Arts have become a sport activity more so an Art for self defense.

 

[Steve]

These kids are 10 -13. Doing techniques I tell them to punch to the face, if they get hit,it's their fault for not blocking. I just think parents tend to baby their kids to much these days. I believe its got to be as real as possible.

Thanks for clarifying. If we're talking about the good old days, don't let me stop you. My experience has been that often we remember things better than they actually were.

If we're talking about kids, then I am now positive that I completely disagree. A bloody nose now and then is par for the course. But that's not the goal. Frankly, I'm a little alarmed that you would describe teaching kids in a "bloody, something might be broken" manner as something to strive for. Avoiding these kinds of places is common sense, not babying the kid.

To be clear, adults can train however they want. I'm strictly talking about kids' training.

 

[seasoned]

Old school training wasn’t built around kids classes, like to days studio schools are. In a fight, it is about what you can take, that counts. Sure the techniques help, but not if you can’t take the hits. When parents send their kids to a karate dojo it is for the discipline, most of which they aren’t getting at home. There is not one parent I have ever met, that said they wanted Jonny, or Jane to learn how to fight dirty with kicks, elbows, eye gouges, and if you get them down, stomp them so they don’t get up. Old school for kids, I don’t think so. But then again maybe the term old school has taken on a whole new meaning nowadays. As F crane said, you will find old school training in “garage-dojo’s, backyards, and small groups“.

 

[just2kicku]

Thanks for clarifying. If we're talking about the good old days, don't let me stop you. My experience has been that often we remember things better than they actually were.

If we're talking about kids, then I am now positive that I completely disagree. A bloody nose now and then is par for the course. But that's not the goal. Frankly, I'm a little alarmed that you would describe teaching kids in a "bloody, something might be broken" manner as something to strive for. Avoiding these kinds of places is common sense, not babying the kid.

To be clear, adults can train however they want. I'm strictly talking about kids' training.

Yeah, I'm told by my instructor (owner of the studio) that sometimes I can be a little rough. I just want them to be good on the street. Can't tell you how many times at that age I got the crap beat out of me, but then schoolyard fights weren' that bad.
The little kids I try not to deal with so much, it gives me a headache.:erg:
Adults are somewhat funny, they want the old way and then cry about it. Just don't know sometimes. Thanks

 

[Xue Sheng]

Old school training is going the way of the dinosaur, but then as already mentioned old school training was not built around kids. However I started as a kid and it got pretty nasty at times. But then that was back when dinosaurs still roamed the earth.

But much more recently training with my last Xingyiquan sifu I got pretty beat up and it was damn cool, but again he does not teach kids.

To be honest, I miss it... but I wouldn't send my kids to a school that trained that way either... but then I am an overly protective dad.

 

[Steve]

Yeah, I'm told by my instructor (owner of the studio) that sometimes I can be a little rough. I just want them to be good on the street. Can't tell you how many times at that age I got the crap beat out of me, but then schoolyard fights weren' that bad.
The little kids I try not to deal with so much, it gives me a headache.:erg:
Adults are somewhat funny, they want the old way and then cry about it. Just don't know sometimes. Thanks

If your boss tells you you're being too rough, maybe, oh I don't know... take the hint. Seriously. IMO, you should avoid ALL the kids, not just the little ones. Maybe take the students only above the age of 16 or 18.

 

[Steve]

To be honest, I miss it... but I wouldn't send my kids to a school that trained that way either... but then I am an overly protective dad.

Maybe I am, too.

 

[searcher]

In my school at the YMCA the training is a watered down version. I tried to make it hard-core, but most of the students got freaked out.

I train a group of young guys who are pretty hard-core and like the old school way of doing things.

The ones at the YMCA understand that they have to complete some of the items the hard-core group perform in order to get a BB rank.

IMO, the typical old school hard-core type are: male, 16-36yo, single, and they feel like they have something to prove.

 

[LawDog]

Old school training is not going out like the dinosaurs, it is still alive and well. This type of training has just moved out of the commercial martial arts schools into the MMA type of schools. Mix Martial Arts is the new up and coming thing, the "old ways" of training and fighting seems to have a very large draw.
Maybe it isn't the "old ways" that is dying off but instead it is the "old ways" instructors who left all of the modern martial arts b.s. behind and joined forces with the MMA guys.
Martial Arts is about "fighting" and not about "looking good".
Just my opinon, no personal shots intended.
:whip:

 

[Steve]

Old school training is not going out like the dinosaurs, it is still alive and well. This type of training has just moved out of the commercial martial arts schools into the MMA type of schools. Mix Martial Arts is the new up and coming thing, the "old ways" of training and fighting seems to have a very large draw.
Maybe it isn't the "old ways" that is dying off but instead it is the "old ways" instructors who left all of the modern martial arts b.s. behind and joined forces with the MMA guys.
Martial Arts is about "fighting" and not about "looking good".
Just my opinon, no personal shots intended.
:whip:

Even MMA schools tailor the training so that it is appropriate for the age groups involved.

Once again, I think it's important to point out that the OP is talking about training kids. This is, in my opinion, a critical distinction. I find it difficult to believe that I'm the only one around here who thinks that the OP is off his rocker to suggest, in his words, the risk of blood or breaking something, for kids' classes.

 

[Twin Fist]

nope, gotta disagree here

in those days, there were no kids classes, so it wasnt happening to kids

in those days, there were not many blackbelts, but they people that got thiers? they were DAMN good

i would go back there in a heartbeat

in fact, i run my school that way, within reason. In the 9 months i have been open there has been blood (an adult), lots of tears (kids) and a lot of sweat and pain (everyone)

of course, i teach out of my garage.......

I think that if kids routinely get bloody noses at class, the adult supervision is bordering on negligent. Personally. I am all for contact, but it needs to be responsible and appropriate for the age of the kids involved.

In other words, I think these kinds of schools went extinct for a reason.

 

[just2kicku]

Even MMA schools tailor the training so that it is appropriate for the age groups involved.

Once again, I think it's important to point out that the OP is talking about training kids. This is, in my opinion, a critical distinction. I find it difficult to believe that I'm the only one around here who thinks that the OP is off his rocker to suggest, in his words, the risk of blood or breaking something, for kids' classes.

Again, I'm not just talking about just about kids classes. But where does it start. After they're adults and have gotten their butts kicked thru their teenage years, and now as adults are too afraid to train that way?
I can only draw on my own personal experience as a kid and how we trained. This is the only reason I brought this post up.
And I'm really not off my rocker

 

[mozzandherb]

When I started training in 1986 I was 6 years old. I got my BB when I was 9, my 2nd dan when I was 11 and my 3rd when I was 16. Now from the time I got my BB I was sparring with adults and kids.
Not only was it the kids I had to be aware of, but the adults too. When I young the adults took it easy on me, but not that easy. They still liked to kick my head and punched my face, but it was expected because we were BB and my instructor allowed it.
As for training kids these days who are just beginning MA, I believe that it is ridiculous to teach them to bloody up someone's face. MA isen't about trying to hurt the other person, especially when you're a kid. That is kind of obsured to think that some people are teaching their kids to be bullies

 

[Josh Oakley]

I wouldn't say the old ways have died, but I will say that by and large, that type of training has to be introduced slowly. I learned that the hard way. Now I follow the example of how to boil a frog. You do it gradually. You'll boil a lot more frogs.

 

[Hagakure]

Maybe I am, too.

Me too definitely.

That said, the last time I trained in Wing Chun, I'd get hit in the face, chopped in the throat, get my knuckles all bloodied up. This was nothing to do with toughening up per se, more to do with going almost full tilt with no pads. Inevitably, although not trying to hurt your partner as such, accidents happened. Not pleasant. And not something I'd allow my daughters to experience as children.