Is the Bible 100% truth?

[James Kovacich]

I believe in the bible but we have to recognize that even though it is said to be Gods words, it was written by man. Something to think about...

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[elder999]

And seven years later, I again invoke the 68 degree rule. :lol:

At John 18:37, 38 we find this interchange of words between Jesus and Pontius Pilate (which started when Jesus was on trial):
Pilate: ‘You aren’t a king, are you?’
Jesus: ‘You are saying that I’m a king. This is why I was born and why I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is on the side of truth listens to my voice.’
Pilate: ‘What is truth?’


What is truth?

I’m in a room at 68 degrees Fahrenheit-that’s a fact.

I say “It’s cold in here,” which, for me, is the truth.

My co worker gets up from his chair sweating, walks right over to the thermostat, turns it down even more and says, “It’s too hot in here,” which, for him, is the truth.

And there we have it: one fact, two truths, all valid.

I’ve found-as a former Christian- former seminarian, son, grandson and great- grandson of ministers who has studied most of the world’s greater religious scriptures, and several different versions of the Bible-and I’m a person with a deep love and respect for the teachings of the rabbi Yeshua, “faith” (or lack thereof) notwithstanding--that all the religious scriptures of the world contain much beauty and truth,

Facts, however, are…..well, up for discussion, if not often dubious.

Errors-in translation, interpretation and intent, are everywhere.

Starting with Genesis-the literal interpretation of the creation myth contained therein is pretty much a dark ages phenomena-early Hebrew commentary, and even some early Christian commentary (ala Augustine) pretty much make it apparent that prior to 1200 A.D. or so, the creation myth of Genesis was seen as allegory-thusly doing away with any scientific inconsistencies it contains, like, where Cain’s wife came from, or how long the days were before the sun was created, or how plants managed to survive before the sun was created-it’s simply someone’s way of explaining the universe’s existence, man’s place in it and his evolving relationship with the Creator.

While some of the events and people of the Old Testament can be found to have some basis in factual event and people, the relationship of the stories to facts is open to debate. Thus, we have a city called Jericho that archaelogical evidence points to having fallen after a long siege, but no support at all for its demise as the target of supernatural sonic weaponry. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen that way, and it doesn’t mean it did. And, while we can be pretty sure that there was a great flood, and that at some point, somebody was on a boat with some animals, the story’s been told and retold in so many versions in the region that we can be fairly certain that his name didn’t become “Noah” until the Hebrews got a hold of the tale, and that the boat probably just had some livestock on it, and not two of every kind of beast on earth-in fact, since “the world” at the time was pretty much as far as one could walk in a couple of days, for most of the people of that region, at any rate, and since we know that the flood was pretty much confined to that region, the phrase “two of each kind of beast” takes on a radically different meaning to the literal interpretation so often imposed on the tale.

I’m not even going to get into the whole New Testament thing in this kind of detail (several different potential debates there,starting with, say, Nazareth) except to point out that most accepted Biblical scholarship-and by that I mean academics in the field of religion, and not necessarily of the faith-have pretty thoroughly discredited every account or mention of Jesus ever held to be contemporaneous with the Gospels. Josephus’ mention of him is generally accepted as a later addition by translators. The Gospels themselves-well, they’re full of beauty and truth, for those who can see it, but they’re also full of a lot of other stuff, and a lot of it is simply not historically reliable, but, speaking as a scientist, I’ve pretty clearly demonstrated that just because something’s not a fact, doesn’t mean it’s not true, and vice versa.

and what I consider the most important New Testament verses. In fact, Jesus pretty much says in them that you can toss the rest:

[SUP]25 [/SUP]On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[SUP][c][/SUP]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][d][/SUP]”
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
[SUP]30 [/SUP]In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. [SUP]31 [/SUP]A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. [SUP]32 [/SUP]So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. [SUP]34 [/SUP]He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. [SUP]35 [/SUP]The next day he took out two denarii[SUP][e][/SUP] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
[SUP]37 [/SUP]The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
Luke 10:25-37

 

[arnisador]

what I consider the most important New Testament verses. In fact, Jesus pretty much says in them that you can toss the rest:

For me it's the triple repetition: Peter, do you love me...:

So when they had dined, Jesus said to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, love you me more than these? He said to him, Yes, Lord; you know that I love you. He said to him, Feed my lambs.

He said to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, love you me? He said to him, Yes, Lord; you know that I love you. He said to him, Feed my sheep.

He said to him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, love you me? Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, Love you me? And he said to him, Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you. Jesus said to him, Feed my sheep.

Leave aside what it meant for Peter...if this isn't an entire basis for a beneficial philosophy of living then I don't know what is.

 

[Cyriacus]

So we're still supposed to be stoning women who aren't virgins and men who work on the Sabbath?

Also, theres a right and wrong way of breaking a babies head against a rock

 

[ks - learning to fly]

we've all heard that saying ... "either it all applies or none of it applies."

what say you?

yes.

 

[elder999]

We've all heard that saying ... "Either it all applies or none of it applies."

What say you?

No.

(EIGHT YEARS???!!! :lfao: )

 

[Makalakumu]

The fact that humans believe in such BS is the reason why the aliens don't want to talk to us. Lol.

 

[elder999]

The fact that humans believe in such BS is the reason why the aliens don't want to talk to us. Lol.

Really? Last time I talked to them, the aliens made damn sure I knew that it's one of the things they find most interesting about us.....:lfao:

 

[MartialMellow]

We've all heard that saying ... "Either it all applies or none of it applies."

What say you?

Yes.

 

[elder999]

No.

(EIGHT YEARS???!!! :lfao: )

.

 

[MartialMellow]

Yes.

 

[Makalakumu]

Really? Last time I talked to them, the aliens made damn sure I knew that it's one of the things they find most interesting about us.....:lfao:

Those are just alien teens joy riding in the flying saucer and taking bets about which invisible sky monkey this primitive simian creature believes to exist.

 

[wingchun100]

I picked "no" because there are certain parts of it that just couldn't be true. First there was Adam and Eve. They had Cain and Abel. Then Cain slew Abel. Where did the rest of the humans come from? I haven't read the Bible in ages, but I don't remember there ever being an explanation for that.

One preacher I knew once said, "Well, not all of the Bible is literal. Some of it is just allegories." Okay, so how are we supposed to judge which is which, and who is who? (Sorry...couldn't resist a Pink Floyd reference there.)

 

[Buka]

Of course it 100% truth. Wouldn't be written if it wasn't true. Just like in the newspapers. Or in your workplace, on your yearly evaluation - all truth. Or statements issued by a government, any government. Or on this, or any other forum. Or on Facebook.

The truth. The whole truth. Nothing but the God damn truth.

 

[elder999]

Again, eight years later, people: the 68 degree rule:

At John 18:37, 38 we find this interchange of words between Jesus and Pontius Pilate (which started when Jesus was on trial):
Pilate: ‘You aren’t a king, are you?’
Jesus: ‘You are saying that I’m a king. This is why I was born and why I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is on the side of truth listens to my voice.’
Pilate: ‘What is truth?’


What is truth?

I’m in a room at 68 degrees Fahrenheit-that’s a fact.

I say “It’s cold in here,” which, for me, is the truth.

My co worker gets up from his chair sweating, walks right over to the thermostat, turns it down even more and says, “It’s too hot in here,” which, for him, is the truth.

And there we have it: one fact, two truths, all valid.

I’ve found-as a former Christian- former seminarian, son, grandson and great- grandson of ministers who has studied most of the world’s greater religious scriptures, and several different versions of the Bible-and I’m a person with a deep love and respect for the teachings of the rabbi Yeshua, “faith” (or lack thereof) notwithstanding--that all the religious scriptures of the world contain much beauty and truth,

Facts, however, are…..well, up for discussion, if not often dubious.

Errors-in translation, interpretation and intent, are everywhere.

Starting with Genesis-the literal interpretation of the creation myth contained therein is pretty much a dark ages phenomena-early Hebrew commentary, and even some early Christian commentary (ala Augustine) pretty much make it apparent that prior to 1200 A.D. or so, the creation myth of Genesis was seen as allegory-thusly doing away with any scientific inconsistencies it contains, like, where Cain’s wife came from, or how long the days were before the sun was created, or how plants managed to survive before the sun was created-it’s simply someone’s way of explaining the universe’s existence, man’s place in it and his evolving relationship with the Creator.

While some of the events and people of the Old Testament can be found to have some basis in factual event and people, the relationship of the stories to facts is open to debate. Thus, we have a city called Jericho that archaelogical evidence points to having fallen after a long siege, but no support at all for its demise as the target of supernatural sonic weaponry. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen that way, and it doesn’t mean it did. And, while we can be pretty sure that there was a great flood, and that at some point, somebody was on a boat with some animals, the story’s been told and retold in so many versions in the region that we can be fairly certain that his name didn’t become “Noah” until the Hebrews got a hold of the tale, and that the boat probably just had some livestock on it, and not two of every kind of beast on earth-in fact, since “the world” at the time was pretty much as far as one could walk in a couple of days, for most of the people of that region, at any rate, and since we know that the flood was pretty much confined to that region, the phrase “two of each kind of beast” takes on a radically different meaning to the literal interpretation so often imposed on the tale.

I’m not even going to get into the whole New Testament thing in this kind of detail (several different potential debates there,starting with, say, Nazareth) except to point out that most accepted Biblical scholarship-and by that I mean academics in the field of religion, and not necessarily of the faith-have pretty thoroughly discredited every account or mention of Jesus ever held to be contemporaneous with the Gospels. Josephus’ mention of him is generally accepted as a later addition by translators. The Gospels themselves-well, they’re full of beauty and truth, for those who can see it, but they’re also full of a lot of other stuff, and a lot of it is simply not historically reliable, but, speaking as a scientist, I’ve pretty clearly demonstrated that just because something’s not a fact, doesn’t mean it’s not true, and vice versa.

 

[Makalakumu]

Truth is that which is confirmed by reason and evidence. 68 degrees is the only truth in the room. Peoples' experience of the truth reflect their preference. That is not truth. It is a subjective internal experience that may or may not incorporate truth.

 

[shesulsa]

So for you, a collection of data =truth. But what if not all pertinent data has been collected?

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[Makalakumu]

The truth will update in response to new information. Confirmation by reason and evidence is a process.

Also, this definition is not just the truth for me. This is how truth is arrived at no matter who you are. The truth for everyone is found by confirming it through reason and evidence whether they know about the process or not, whether they accept the process or not, or whether they are intelligent enough to understand the concept. To say that the truth "to me" implies that the truth can be different...and that's like saying that gravity can be different "to me" in this universe.

Truth and existence are confirmed through reason and evidence. Deities do not pass the test. No religion passes this test. They are illusions, sometimes horrible, sometime beautiful, always illusions though.

 

[elder999]

Truth is that which is confirmed by reason and evidence. 68 degrees is the only truth in the room. Peoples' experience of the truth reflect their preference. That is not truth. It is a subjective internal experience that may or may not incorporate truth.

Nope. Sorry.

Once again, from the Merriam Webster English Language Technical Manual (that's engineerspeak for "dictionary"...:lfao: )

a archaic : fidelity, constancy
b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance

2
a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality
b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics>
c : the body of true statements and propositions

3
a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality
b chiefly British : true 2
c : fidelity to an original or to a standard

And:

: a thing done: as
a obsolete : feat
b : crime <accessory after the fact>
c archaic : action

2
archaic : performance, doing

3
: the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of facthinges on evidence>

4
a : something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact>
b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>

5
: a piece of information presented as having objective reality

I'll return, again, to the 68 degree rule example: if the person who claims "it's cold in here," shows the quite factual evidence of their goosebumps, then they are, in fact, displaying an autonomic reaction to what their body perceives as "cold," and that's a fact, on which their truth is based-likewise for the person who says that "it's hot," if they are flushed or sweating.

"Truth" is, by its very nature, subjetive, whereas facts are, by their own nature, objective. To assert otherwise is to likewise assume a subjective perception of reality: that there is nothing but "fact."

Likewise, to assert that "all religions" are "illusion" (rather than "all deities," which is another, separate discussion) is a subjective observation, and not one grounded in fact or truth-indeed, the autonomic reaction and benefits of Buddhist meditation, or shamanic ritual are grounded in fact and science-there is very little that could be said to be "illusory" about them at all-they are facts. What people have to say about their own experiences is, by nature, again, subjective, but no less true.

 

[Makalakumu]

That's why I changed my religion to the Odinic Rite. It's way cooler than Christianity and Odin spoke to me, telling me it was the best religion. How is that for Truth? Lol.