Is something missing?

[Steel Tiger]

I think you are on to something here.

MY Taiji Sifu for instance will show you a way to move in push hands and let you work at it and find your center and later move onto this is where you apply force. Where as my Xingyi Sifu moves right into application after showing a form. I am also beginning to realize I too am guilty of this when I teach to assist my Taiji Sifu and when I use to teach Taiji years ago. This is the posture and this is what it does, this is 2 hand stationary push hands and this is an application type of thing.

I also was thinking this morning while doing Qigong that I am again looking to the result or the goal and not paying attention to the practice itself. I did not use to be that way back when I did more qigong but realize now that I am. So I stopped thinking of the result and just focused on what I was doing at that moment and it is a completely different thing. I think it is a western thing that if you are not careful you will do exactly that because that is what we are brought up to do. Where my Chinese sifus and my wife as well, seem to be less focused on the goal and more focused on what needs to be done now or worked on now and if you do that you will attain the goal. My first Sifu (also Chinese) said something that I remember that I feel is somewhat related. He said “Don’t worry about money just focus on now and what you like and money will come”.

I am not saying my Chinese teachers are better than my American because that is certainly not the case they are all highly skilled at what they do. But the approach is definitely different and at least as far as CMA is concerned I do feel that, at least for me, I am missing something by focusing on the end result more than the current practice.

And about 10 years ago I do not think I was focusing on the end result that much, that was when I was doing more Qigong. So when the heck did I start thinking more like a westerner?

Qigong as a practise has a somewhat intangible goal. You may feel the benefit but it is not so obvious as practising martial techniques. I think that lends itself to thinking in a different way. From my own experience I always treated qigong in a different way to other training mainly because there was no obvious immediate result.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Qigong as a practise has a somewhat intangible goal. You may feel the benefit but it is not so obvious as practising martial techniques. I think that lends itself to thinking in a different way. From my own experience I always treated qigong in a different way to other training mainly because there was no obvious immediate result.

Agreed and several years ago that is how I approached qigong but I realized this morning somewhere along the way I changed the approach. First fI was ocusing WAY to much on posture and then focusing WAY to much on small circle circulation and points.

Basically since I posted this I have been looking at just about everything I do to see if I can change the focus to that of my Chinese sifus. Nothing wrong with my American Sifus approach, but apparently that has been mine for quite awhile when it comes to CMA and I think I want to try it form the other approach for awhile to see what happens.

I do really feel like I am going to miss something if I don't try this and I have been at this for a long time so what the heck lets give another go with a different spin.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Its interesting, my sifu is an Australian and he learnt from a native Chinese. Chris, however, always presented the concept that the form must have its gross elements represented but must conform to the practitioner not the practitioner conforming to the form.

This is a problem I see with a lot of people teaching taiji. Their focus is on the minute details of the form, where a hand should be, whether a foot should be at 30 or 35 degrees of angle. This sort of focus reduces the form to a formula to be recited over and over until YOU can do IT without error. That is not the essence of the form. Anyone who is not a complete mook can do that.

My sifu always describes our forms as spirit fighting forms. They require some imagination, imagining single and multiple attacks to be dealt with. I think this helps to see the essence of the form rather than just the movements.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I agree the form needs to fit the practitioner, to a point.

If I show someone white crane spreads its wings I do not expect them to do it exactly like me however if they interpret that to fit them as flapping their arms and running around the room yelling "I'm a crane" I think they missed the point :uhyeah: Sorry couldn't resist

I found, also rather recently that if I do the form more like my Sifu it feels much better (from the Energy/power/force point of view) and I can make more sense of it.

I have seen Yang style done in so many different ways that it makes my head spin and it was not until I saw a comparison between Yang Jun, Fu, and Tung Hu Ling that it all came together as what was better for me (even if it is not as comfortable), although it did make the form a bit harder because it got lower and rounder. My Sifu and Tung Hu Ling had the same teacher so you can pretty much guess what my style looks like. Prior to that I was trying to make the form fit me and it was a combination between what you see Yang Jun do and what you see Tung do and although it felt right to me (meaning comfortable) it did not make as much sense as it does now that I am doing the form closer to what my Sifu does.

This to me is also part of the issue. We try and make this form fit us and in some cases that is fine but in others it just isn’t the way to go, once again focusing on the result instead of the process. I can finish the form and it looks pretty cool, but I missed something in the process that makes it actually work both internally and externally.

My Sifu teaches the form first and then refines and after that he pretty much leave it to you as to where you want to take it, (as long as you don’t start that flapping your arms and running around the room stuff that is ). He is aware that not everyone will do this the exact same way but there is, at least to me, only so far you can go and then you are doing something completely different.

When I taught I use to tell my students there is a correct way to get from point A to point B. I can do repulse monkey the right way or I can just flop my hand out there and get the end result looking right but everything in between was wrong. This is not saying that you can only do this one way, my way, it is saying that there is a set pattern of movement that you need to be at least close to. But everyone has a different body type and different weight distributions and different skeletal issues so it is highly unlikely that everyone will or even can move exactly the same, but in Taiji they should be close. This also goes into why I call CMC style CMC style and not Yang style, the movements, although good, are very different.

But I also agree that getting into the foot needs to be a such and such and angle to be correct is a bit much.

My Xingyi Sifu’s Teacher was Chinese and my Sifu does not try and get us to all look the same either. But he does have a certain way he feels the form should be done. As I hear him say to the same guy over and over again, “Don’t stamp your back foot” I have no problem with this at all, to be honest I rather appreciate it. But then he goes right to applications after that and the guy is still stomping his back foot. This is where I feel the focus is very different from that of my Chinese Sifus, especially my Sanda Sifu, get it right or do it again until you do kind of thing. Now this might put many off but I like it. Hell I was throwing a front kick wrong as far as he was concerned (I've been doing a front kick for 30 years) and it took me a while to get it to where he wanted and he WON’T move on until it is right, and you know, he was right. I joke about hitting trees, but there is a specific way to hit them and a specific sound I am looking for from that strike. No I do not move exactly like him but I do get the same sound and my movement is close.

And I have no clue as to whether or not I am still on post or not. So I will stop here.

 

[Andrew Green]

If I show someone white crane spreads its wings I do not expect them to do it exactly like me however if they interpret that to fit them as flapping their arms and running around the room yelling "I'm a crane" I think they missed the point :uhyeah: Sorry couldn't resist

You got something to say about my Kung Fu?

Well, take this... "Drunken monkey flying inverted spin fist of doom!"

 

[Xue Sheng]

You got something to say about my Kung Fu?

Well, take this... "Drunken monkey flying inverted spin fist of doom!"

:lfao:

Now that I have regained my composure

Ahh then I must counter with the “triple flippy flaming dragon spinning back kick of chaos and discomfort”

 

[Xue Sheng]

DAMN!!!

I picked up a book today that I have been meaning to start reading

The Making of a Butterfly
By Phillip (Pete) Starr

And it pretty much hit on a lot of what I am thinking and trying to say here and I am only up to page 57

Just wanted to add that

I will post more on the book once I am finished.

I am also guessing by the end of this book I will have made my decision about sifus as well.