Is It Any Wonder ...

[Sukerkin]

... that even ordinary people in the North Western European nations have had enough of leaving their 'doors' open for the emigres of other nations?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22656657

Even I am not immune to the feeling that it is way past time to reverse the flow. Too many, too fast, coming in that are not interested in being part of the nation that gives them a place to stand. I am afraid I am with the Australians on this one - if you don't like the rules, go somewhere else; we are done changing so as not to offend you.

The flip side of the coin is that those with actual roots and investment in the country are taking their talents and assets elsewhere, which just serves to make the economic situation worse, which in turn cranks up the heat on the immigration issue.

 

[Janina]

The problem with Sweden is that most of these so called immigrants are not actually people who have come to that country from other nations, but immigrants in second or third generation. Many of those who are now rioting have actually been born in Sweden.

If we in this particular situation talk only about immigration, we ignore the real problem behind the immigration. Why these people still are not integrated to be part of Swedish society?

 

[billc]

It is interesting that the religion of the "disaffected" youths isn't mentioned anywhere in the story. Is it another example of islamaphobia phobia? Or, are these youths angry bhudists?

 

[Sukerkin]

That's very true, Janina :nods:. It is a point I have made myself in the past when touching on this issue. It is something that used to be the case most certainly here.

The first generation wanted to be part of where they were coming to because it was better in every conceivable way for them than where they were coming from. They had it rough for, in a period of our (British) history we should not be proud of (other than we tried our best to grow out of it), they were discriminated against pretty badly. I can't find it at present but I had saved off a radio programme about immigration and integration that was broadcast a couple of years back. The best and most eloquent exponent of what was good about Britain and why those attitudes, mores and codes were worth preserving, rather than throwing away or allowing to be dissolved, was an old Polish lady who had come here to escape the Third Reich. How she put across why we, the British, should be proud of ourselves, despite our lapses when we give in to our baser fears, was quite inspiring.

Where the problems used to arise, as Janina says, was primarily with the grandchildren of those initial emigres. But now we see people coming here purely for economic advantage and they do not wish to live by the same rules as the rest of us.

I see it in a small way at work - petty larceny and 'appropriation without permission' has gone through the roof since the workforce has become dominated by those from other shores. The cohesion of the company has suffered too, with ghettoisation occurring - incredible to see it happen before your eyes I have to say. The rumour mill has it that the general relationships with clients are suffering too as they have to deal with staff whose English is not good and whose manners are not cut from British cloth - that of course is hardly the fault of the individual but it is a somewhat hidden side-effect of 'employing cheap' rather than holding out for quality.

 

[TimoS]

It is interesting that the religion of the "disaffected" youths isn't mentioned anywhere in the story.

maybe their religion isn't the issue? Or could it be that they are of mixed religions?

 

[Sukerkin]

What's being reported about it in Finland, TimoS?

 

[TimoS]

What's being reported about it in Finland, TimoS?

I haven't looked at the reportings that often, but I don't think there's been any mention about religion. Likely many of those rioters are muslims, but as I understand it, their religion is not the issue, some feel that they've been abandoned by the state, some just want to have an excuse for rioting. Apparently the Swedish security service have categorized the rioters into four groups: the far left, the far right, local youth and known criminals. I remember that yesterday (or the day before that) the only person arrested was actually Finnish

 

[billc]

It is interesting to me that when people move to another country to escape the flaws of their original country, they too often accept bringing the bad parts of those countries to the new country. Mexico is a mess and the illegal immigrants want the economic opportunity here in the States, yet the legalization movement, without regard to the laws broken in being illegal, is not different than the corrupt practices back in Mexico which is making Mexico a less good place to live.

 

[Sukerkin]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2013/05/swedens-riots

The mindless stupidity displayed by the rioters beggars belief. 'You' are not really wanted and the political and economic climate is swinging towards 'doing something' official about immigration. So what do you do?

Attempt to show that you have value to add to the country you claim to have adopted {whispers behind hand "but not really"}? Or maybe it'd be a better idea to riot and burn the possessions of yourself, your neighbours and maybe of those on whose goodwill you depend?

Top tip, the latter is not the better choice ... oh ... too late.