Is bjj original

Luta Livre knows all about the so-called "De La Riva" guard, berimbolos too. They just use different names, because you know, mortal enemies and stuff.
 
Here's a good video that explains how the "old Judo guard" that De La Riva popularized in Gracieland came to be named after him.

Actual B&W video inside of the "old Judo guard" in question.

"Pudding guard" was the original nickname they used. Never knew that.

 
drop bear said:
I think the Gracies were successful as an entrepreneur before that. I could be wrong. But BJJ was originally for street punks and scumbags. The Gracies sold it to rich professional people.

I don't necessarily think either Bruce Lee or Royce Gracie really exploded the MMA concept.

It was where gyms suddenly turned around and said they need to find subject matter experts. (I don't know who was the first. Mabye guys like John will)

Which was generally getting a bjj guy to come teach. But evolved in to specialist coaches. This hadn't really happened before.

Bruce Lee would train with a bunch of guys and distill that in to a hybrid that people would learn. But that does not give the full experience.

To have experts in different fields under the same banner was the super weapon of MMA.
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Some people come up with a good idea, but poorly execute it or do it in such a way that it's selfishly optimized (i.e. JKD being based on the arts Bruce Lee trained means it's optimized for Bruce Lee). Then other people come along and refine the "production model". For example, Kel-Tec prototyping what other gun companies will eventually turn into a functional weapon.
 
drop bear said:
I think the Gracies were successful as an entrepreneur before that. I could be wrong. But BJJ was originally for street punks and scumbags. The Gracies sold it to rich professional people.

I don't necessarily think either Bruce Lee or Royce Gracie really exploded the MMA concept.

It was where gyms suddenly turned around and said they need to find subject matter experts. (I don't know who was the first. Mabye guys like John will)

Which was generally getting a bjj guy to come teach. But evolved in to specialist coaches. This hadn't really happened before.

Bruce Lee would train with a bunch of guys and distill that in to a hybrid that people would learn. But that does not give the full experience.

To have experts in different fields under the same banner was the super weapon of MMA.
Click to expand...
YES, BJJ and Gracies are big business. They show COMMON people how to fight and defend themselves on the street rather than the advanced fancy movements.

You guys are experts, training for your whole lives. BUT, for people like me that only trained for a few years, and most even train less, most of us look for the most effective way to win a fight or defending ourselves on the street. All the "ARTS" are secondary. To me, MA should be the art of kicking butts. If I truly want sophistication and grace, I'll learn ballet!!!

The world famous Monalisa painting supposedly the highest form of art, I prefer to see Minka Kelly's smile ANY TIME OF THE DAY. I don't care about the "art", just kicking butt. I don't care about history or what is the origin. I just care there is one UFC gym and one Gracie BJJ within 1 mile where I live, that if I want to learn, I can get a whole lot better in the shortest time. I don't want to spend my whole life discovering and rise to the pinnacle of the art.

Yes, BJJ and Gracie is very commercial, AND I am buying it. I would have joined if not for I am way pass the age and condition. I would never learn another TMA that is striking, not even Muy Thai. I had my few years of kick boxing(Bruce Lee style), no striking can give me the result of just say one year of BJJ.

I am sure most of the COMMONERS are like me, buying it. Look at all the Gracie schools in the country, they are everywhere. Just watch these few video clips from Dan Bongino show. He invited Gracie to show about self defense. Tell me these doesn't attract a lot of people particular women to learn BJJ:




Remember, most of the men rather look at picture of Minka Kelly over Monalisa!!! Most of us are shallow. When Minka Kelly gets too old, we'll find a younger one to adore. Honestly, I was very impressed with the video for women self defense. I would send my grand daughter to the school if she is willing to learn.
 
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rygamean-dictator.gif
 
Alan0354 said:
YES, BJJ and Gracies are big business. They show COMMON people how to fight and defend themselves on the street rather than the advanced fancy movements.

You guys are experts, training for your whole lives. BUT, for people like me that only trained for a few years, and most even train less, most of us look for the most effective way to win a fight or defending ourselves on the street. All the "ARTS" are secondary. To me, MA should be the art of kicking butts. If I truly want sophistication and grace, I'll learn ballet!!!

The world famous Monalisa painting supposedly the highest form of art, I prefer to see Minka Kelly's smile ANY TIME OF THE DAY. I don't care about the "art", just kicking butt. I don't care about history or what is the origin. I just care there is one UFC gym and one Gracie BJJ within 1 mile where I live, that if I want to learn, I can get a whole lot better in the shortest time. I don't want to spend my whole life discovering and rise to the pinnacle of the art.

Yes, BJJ and Gracie is very commercial, AND I am buying it. I would have joined if not for I am way pass the age and condition. I would never learn another TMA that is striking, not even Muy Thai. I had my few years of kick boxing(Bruce Lee style), no striking can give me the result of just say one year of BJJ.

I am sure most of the COMMONERS are like me, buying it. Look at all the Gracie schools in the country, they are everywhere. Just watch these few video clips from Dan Bongino show. He invited Gracie to show about self defense. Tell me these doesn't attract a lot of people particular women to learn BJJ:




Remember, most of the men rather look at picture of Minka Kelly over Monalisa!!! Most of us are shallow. When Minka Kelly gets too old, we'll find a younger one to adore. Honestly, I was very impressed with the video for women self defense. I would send my grand daughter to the school if she is willing to learn.
Click to expand...
All true and I wish bjj, gracies and it’s students all the best, it’s an effective style for sure, however the issue myself and others have is the false claims they have made about being the creators of a new fighting style with new techniques. To be honest when I posted this thread I assumed they had invented a lot of new techniques the supplement the judo core, however many members here with vastly more knowledge than myself have shown me even this is not true. Sorry if the truth hurts bjj guys but it doesn’t mean what you do is ineffective
 
gerardfoy50 said:
All true and I wish bjj, gracies and it’s students all the best, it’s an effective style for sure, however the issue myself and others have is the false claims they have made about being the creators of a new fighting style with new techniques. To be honest when I posted this thread I assumed they had invented a lot of new techniques the supplement the judo core, however many members here with vastly more knowledge than myself have shown me even this is not true. Sorry if the truth hurts bjj guys but it doesn’t mean what you do is ineffective
Click to expand...
I guess I really don't care about their origin, I am not even saying they are the best. I can only talk about the effect of BJJ and Gracie on the MA. Like I said, Royce Gracie got absolutely KILLED by Matt Huges with Gracie's own game. But Gracie shocked the world at the beginning of UFC. He disappeared after the first 3 UFCs, maybe he could see he's not going to win over the big wrestlers, so he conveniently disappeared. You can call it wise and marketing.

For me, I am a little partial to BJJ ONLY because I have a few years of kickboxing influenced by Bruce Lee era in the 80s. A little BJJ will fill a big hole in my knowledge.

I am trying to be impartial, just call it as it is. The world has changed, to me, there's no one style that is perfect, the key is to take the best of each style and use it like in MMA. I guess that's where you see resistance from all different styles. The biggest enemy of progress is the pride. For me, I have no issue coming out and say I am chopped meat, my kick boxing is way behind time. I call my practice now a days "aerobics"!! Forget about fighting and all that, my style won't stand a chance in this new world. BUT, I can still punch and kick bags as aerobics!!!
 
gerardfoy50 said:
All true and I wish bjj, gracies and it’s students all the best, it’s an effective style for sure, however the issue myself and others have is the false claims they have made about being the creators of a new fighting style with new techniques. To be honest when I posted this thread I assumed they had invented a lot of new techniques the supplement the judo core, however many members here with vastly more knowledge than myself have shown me even this is not true. Sorry if the truth hurts bjj guys but it doesn’t mean what you do is ineffective
Click to expand...
Here's the thing, though: they did create a new figfhting style, depending how you define "style". Much of the MA community consider any significant deviation from a source to be a new style. Theirs at least is a new system (which I define as a combination of the style and how it is trained).

That there is little if anything in their system that hasn't happened before doesn't change any of that. A lot of it wasn't widely used, and the delivery system was pretty rare. So it was, in fact, a fairly new combination. Sure, some of the proponents claim they invented things that existed before. Some of them may even be correct, in that those may be things they had never seen, and which were developed anew within their schools. It happens.

The rest is marketing, and if we're to hold that against them, we'd have to have the same grudge against any art that has done well in its marketing.
 
I have been reading and it takes 3-6 months BJJ training to get your first white stripe on your BJJ white belt I have been going now for 1 month and 2 weeks and got my first white stripe is this normal? Feel like I was promoted to fast, I mean there are guys in there that can ripe me apart in less then half a second!!!!
 
Darren said:
I have been reading and it takes 3-6 months BJJ training to get your first white stripe on your BJJ white belt I have been going now for 1 month and 2 weeks and got my first white stripe is this normal? Feel like I was promoted to fast, I mean there are guys in there that can ripe me apart in less then half a second!!!!
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Hey chum. It’s quite normal. Stripes as a white belt really don’t mean much. Promotions are up to your professor and completely subjective. No two professors or coaches will ever have the same standards. If you’re sure the academy you’re at is trustworthy and you enjoy being there, just trust your coaches and the process. They will never promote you unless they’re absolutely sure you deserve it.
 
Darren said:
I have been reading and it takes 3-6 months BJJ training to get your first white stripe on your BJJ white belt I have been going now for 1 month and 2 weeks and got my first white stripe is this normal? Feel like I was promoted to fast, I mean there are guys in there that can ripe me apart in less then half a second!!!!
Click to expand...
I think there's a couple of parts to this. First, I do believe times have been speeding up as of late. When I was looking into BJJ several years ago, the times for each belt and the total time to black belt seemed longer than it is today. I don't know how much of that is commercialization of the art, and how much of that is maturity of the art and of things like youtube and podcasts where folks can get more training.

Another part is that progression in BJJ seems to be more about mat time than total time. In my TKD school, you could get your next belt in 2 months as long as you knew the material. It didn't matter if you went 2x per week or 6x per week, you had to wait 2 months. In my BJJ school, you log in every class, and after 40 classes you're eligible for a stripe. This took me about 2 months going 5x per week. It took others 5 months going 2x per week. There are a few who've gone for a long time without getting a stripe.
 
Darren said:
I have been reading and it takes 3-6 months BJJ training to get your first white stripe on your BJJ white belt I have been going now for 1 month and 2 weeks and got my first white stripe is this normal? Feel like I was promoted to fast, I mean there are guys in there that can ripe me apart in less then half a second!!!!
Click to expand...
This music video very accurately, uh, describes my first stripe.

Enjoy if while you're alive, man. Because that time is right this very minute.

 
Darren said:
I have been reading and it takes 3-6 months BJJ training to get your first white stripe on your BJJ white belt I have been going now for 1 month and 2 weeks and got my first white stripe is this normal? Feel like I was promoted to fast, I mean there are guys in there that can ripe me apart in less then half a second!!!!
Click to expand...
From what I've seen, the stripes and belts mostly depend how you do against other students. Don't think of it as a "promotion", but as a label. You've just been labeled as someone who is about as good as the average student with that stripe - likely based on how you do free-rolling.
 
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