Interesting footwork video

[wckf92]

 

[Touch Of Death]

This is cool and all, but my only hitch is when he steps backward. You have to turn your body so that you foot isn't swinging around. I would have to get up there and see if that were possible, again, it is cool, otherwise. Rear cover, is the term we use.

 

[geezer]

That looks like fun.

The caption says it "looks like a plum flower" when viewed from above. Nope, a plum flower would have five evenly spaced piles arranged in a pentagonal pattern with one more in the middle. This one is set up like the number five on dice. No matter if it works. I wonder if you could just use heavy cinder blocks?

 

[wckf92]

That looks like fun.

The caption says it "looks like a plum flower" when viewed from above. Nope, a plum flower would have five evenly spaced piles arranged in a pentagonal pattern with one more in the middle. This one is set up like the number five on dice. No matter if it works. I wonder if you could just use heavy cinder blocks?

Correct. And, I've noticed a lot of that. Calling the 5 dice setup the Plum Flower pattern. It is supposed to be five and one.
I've tried the heavy block thing Geez...nope doesn't work. The jong must be set up correctly, spaced correctly, be secured somehow, and must NOT be larger than the users foot...otherwise just don't use it at all.

 

[KPM]

I agree it is missing at least one pole to truly qualify as the "plum flower" pattern. But then they likely did it this way for space-saving considerations. But you do miss part of the footwork patterns without this 6th pole. I've seen Southern Mantis guys use a set-up with around 12 poles, and some at different heights!

 

[geezer]

Correct. And, I've noticed a lot of that. Calling the 5 dice setup the Plum Flower pattern. It is supposed to be five and one.
I've tried the heavy block thing Geez...nope doesn't work. The jong must be set up correctly, spaced correctly, be secured somehow, and must NOT be larger than the users foot...otherwise just don't use it at all.

@ Yak Sau: Hey Yak, I saw that you disliked this comment by WCKF92. Why? Am I missing something?

 

[geezer]

Thinking a bit more about this, I recall reading Leung Ting's comments in his book 116 Wooden Dummy Techniques (2010 ed., P. 29) on the "Plum-Flower Pattern" vs. the the "Five Dot Dice Pattern". He discusses both patterns. He attributes the confusion between them to the ways in which the original Chinese Characters describing the Mui Fa Jong can be read and pronounced in Cantonese. Depending on how the same pronunciation is transcribed into characters, the result can be interpreted as "Plum Flower" dummy or "Five Dot" dummy.

In relation to the Mook Yang Jong or Wooden Dummy, he superimposes both patterns creating nine-dots to analyze the footwork. I find this interesting, but a bit overly technical and confusing ...at least at my level of understanding.

What I do take away from this is that within the various WC branches there is a long tradition of using both five and six dot patterns for training. If either one helps, that's great.

 

[geezer]

Actually, both patterns are a good deal older than WC. Check out Shi DeJian working on the five-dot pattern at the Shaolin Monastery:

 

[wckf92]

Actually, both patterns are a good deal older than WC. Check out Shi DeJian working on the five-dot pattern at the Shaolin Monastery:

Cool video!
I'm not sure how old this sort of thing is...but I find it quite fascinating. When one superimposes the "6" dot pattern in conjunction with the MYJ, it enlightens the mind.

 

[yak sao]

@ Yak Sau: Hey Yak, I saw that you disliked this comment by WCKF92. Why? Am I missing something?

Oh crap. I've got this new tablet and was scrolling through and hit it by mistake. Thanks for bringing it to my attention geezer....my apologies WCKF92

 

[wckf92]

Oh crap. I've got this new tablet and was scrolling through and hit it by mistake. Thanks for bringing it to my attention geezer....my apologies WCKF92

No worries brother.

 

[JPinAZ]

I've seen this type of thing before. Can someone explain the intent of stepping on posts in the OP clip (regardless if it's 4 or 5 posts) - what is the benefit of using the posts?

If this is to train a newbie where to place their feet, couldn't the just do this footwork pattern on the ground and/or maybe mark off the ground with tape? IMO, that makes most sense since it looks look the posts would cause unrealistic usage of the feet when stepping (many times landing on the front of his foot with heal hanging off - not very conductive to someone fighting on flat or even uneven ground). That and no one really fights on posts haha
It does look like it would cause the practitioner to focus more on the post than why and how they are stepping in the first place. I guess same could be said for taped off patterns on the ground..

Thanks in advance!

 

[wckf92]

I've seen this type of thing before. Can someone explain the intent of stepping on posts in the OP clip (regardless if it's 4 or 5 posts) - what is the benefit of using the posts?

If this is to train a newbie where to place their feet, couldn't the just do this footwork pattern on the ground and/or maybe mark off the ground with tape? IMO, that makes most sense since it looks look the posts would cause unrealistic usage of the feet when stepping (many times landing on the front of his foot with heal hanging off - not very conductive to someone fighting on flat or even uneven ground). That and no one really fights on posts haha
It does look like it would cause the practitioner to focus more on the post than why and how they are stepping in the first place. I guess same could be said for taped off patterns on the ground..

Thanks in advance!

Well, I'm sure others glean from it what they will, based on where they are in their own skill level and training... etc.
One way of viewing / using the posts (not like in the OP vid) is the same as the over-training principle. I.E. you want to train for a 100 pushup challenge... train your body to do 200. It, (the posts), is an attribute builder/enhancer. It will greatly enhance and train into your blood the ability to have much greater awareness of you and your partners feet, as well as (obviously) much better balance.
The other thing is that of the actual patterns itself. When not on top, the jong is used for on-the-ground stepping, kicking, conditioning, etc.
Just my .02 JPinAZ... thx.

 

[JPinAZ]

Thanks for the reply!

Well, I'm sure others glean from it what they will, based on where they are in their own skill level and training... etc. One way of viewing / using the posts (not like in the OP vid) is the same as the over-training principle. I.E. you want to train for a 100 pushup challenge... train your body to do 200. It, (the posts), is an attribute builder/enhancer. It will greatly enhance and train into your blood the ability to have much greater awareness of you and your partners feet, as well as (obviously) much better balance.

IMO the only way to really do that is with a live partner since they are actually moving, giving you live feedback and something to react to (vs. a stationary post).
But the balance thing I could maybe see.

The other thing is that of the actual patterns itself. When not on top, the jong is used for on-the-ground stepping, kicking, conditioning, etc.
Just my .02 JPinAZ... thx.

Yeah, that makes a little more sense to me for a practical usage. Thanks.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've seen this type of thing before. Can someone explain the intent of stepping on posts in the OP clip (regardless if it's 4 or 5 posts) - what is the benefit of using the posts?

If this is to train a newbie where to place their feet, couldn't the just do this footwork pattern on the ground and/or maybe mark off the ground with tape? IMO, that makes most sense since it looks look the posts would cause unrealistic usage of the feet when stepping (many times landing on the front of his foot with heal hanging off - not very conductive to someone fighting on flat or even uneven ground). That and no one really fights on posts haha
It does look like it would cause the practitioner to focus more on the post than why and how they are stepping in the first place. I guess same could be said for taped off patterns on the ground..

Thanks in advance!

My guess is that the posts force you to step in the optimum angles so that it's habit. Trying to step at a 45 degree angle without markings is an estimate, but arranging the posts like that will force you to move correctly because you have no were else to stand. The part where he's on the ground it looks like he's doing movements that would uproot/break his opponents stance. Then when he hops up on the posts he begins to fight at angles which is what Kung Fu people should be doing in the first place.

My guess after practicing on the post for months and even years, your legs will begin to normally move that way when fighting.

 

[wckf92]

My guess is that the posts force you to step in the optimum angles so that it's habit. Trying to step at a 45 degree angle without markings is an estimate, but arranging the posts like that will force you to move correctly because you have no were else to stand. The part where he's on the ground it looks like he's doing movements that would uproot/break his opponents stance. Then when he hops up on the posts he begins to fight at angles which is what Kung Fu people should be doing in the first place.

My guess after practicing on the post for months and even years, your legs will begin to normally move that way when fighting.

True!!!

 

[wckf92]

IMO the only way to really do that is with a live partner since they are actually moving, giving you live feedback and something to react to (vs. a stationary post).

I agree... that's why once the necessary skills and attributes (and comfort level while on top of the posts) has been achieved, training partners are introduced on top of posts to do basic drills, etc. Chi Sao, Lop Sao, foot sweeps, trying to push, pull, yank, or throw the other guy off the jong (king of the mountain sort of).