Interesting exchange of posts...

[exile]

There is a very interesting exchange of posts on Iain Abernethy's website—including a sub-conversation between Stuart Anslow and Simon O'Neil, probably leading exponents of the application of bunkai-jutsu kata analysis to TKD hyungs (ITF and WTF/KKW respectively)—on combat interpretaton of TKD patterns. Since the thread started, Anslow has published the first in a series of encyclopædic treatments of bunkai for the ITF hyungs, and O'Neil is working on a comprehensive book of the WTF/KKW set based on his monograph-scale set of newsletters from the Combat_TKD website. This thread, the one I'm referring to, is the only instance I'm aware of where the two of them talk directly to each other. Some quite suggestive discussion there...

 

[WMKS Shogun]

I am a fan of Anslow's work. Thank you for b'ringing this to my (and others') attention.

 

[exile]

I am a fan of Anslow's work. Thank you for b'ringing this to my (and others') attention.

My pleasure, David—I also think a great deal of his work and his ovarall program. Glad you found their exchange interesting!

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Park Hae Man is the man we need to speak too about this kind of thing. Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced his telephone number!

Cheers for the link Exile, will have to read that when I have more time.

 

[crushing]

In addition to the great discussion, there are links to other resources within that discussion. Thanks for this link exile, it's a nice find!

Mr. Abernethy's September Newsletter was posted at his site yesterday. Please find it here: http://www.iainabernethy.com/news_page.asp

 

[exile]

Cheers for the link Exile, will have to read that when I have more time.

Thanks for this link exile, it's a nice find!

Mr. Abernethy's September Newsletter was posted at his site yesterday. Please find it here: http://www.iainabernethy.com/news_page.asp

Glad you find this material helpful, guys—I'm always on the lookout for places where people with real expertise and experience throw their questions and hypotheses at each other in a freewheeling, open-minded way. One thing I find very interesting: an awful lot of the people who do this are senior British MAists. It's been commented on before, so there's nothing original in my impression that in the UK, people seem to have worked out a way of talking about these things with each other which is less sectarian, less ready to explode. The rules of conversation there seem to be something we're still struggling toward here (I do think MT does the best job of this of any of the big U.S.-based MA sites...)

Abernethy's newsletter is remarkable—tons of links to free, detailed MA literature and essays, invariably well-written and well-informed, by people involved in the BCA `applied TMA' framework. I'm still a bit baffled by the economics of it—all these free articles and e-books and so on—but I think what it is is, the sale of DVDs and the seminar fees sort of pay for the operation. I don't think IA is primarily interested in getting rich, though obviously no one minds getting rich as a result of their passion; but what he really wants to do, I think, is radically change the direction of the karate-based arts in this new century, in a way that lets them rejoin their original tradition in practical self defense. An extremely admirable goal, and one I personally hope fervently that he succeeds in...

 

[Laurentkd]

There is a very interesting exchange of posts on Iain Abernethy's website—including a sub-conversation between Stuart Anslow and Simon O'Neil, probably leading exponents of the application of bunkai-jutsu kata analysis to TKD hyungs (ITF and WTF/KKW respectively)—on combat interpretaton of TKD patterns. Since the thread started, Anslow has published the first in a series of encyclopædic treatments of bunkai for the ITF hyungs, and O'Neil is working on a comprehensive book of the WTF/KKW set based on his monograph-scale set of newsletters from the Combat_TKD website. This thread, the one I'm referring to, is the only instance I'm aware of where the two of them talk directly to each other. Some quite suggestive discussion there...

Any news one when this should be published ? (Sorry if this info is in the link, I am not doing looking at MT yet so I haven't checked it out!)

 

[Sukerkin]

That's a nice post, Bob and I thank you for the positive light it casts on we Limey's :tup:.

I have to say we still have our rivalries and can hold scathing opinions about this that or the other. However, we usually get over these once we've sparred with someone.

It's been said many times here at MT but it's not the art but the artist that makes all the difference in the world. Add to that the necessity of the artist fitting the art and all you are left with is the study of effectiveness for an individual.

We sometimes fall from this high ideal. For example, I used to hold horridly scathing views on Shotokan karate, ranting on about how stiff and immobile it was, unlike my super-wonderful kung fu :lol:.

Then I spent some time sparring with Shotokan guys. Some were better than me, some were worse. Guess what? The ones that were better than me usually 'beat' me and those that were worse I usually 'beat'.

That was my first real lesson in martial arts in a wider sense I think. It's not an unusual thing in the UK for that sort of mutual testing to happen - or it least it used not to be (any more up to date experience chaps and chapesses?).

Regardless, what I'm on about is we don't get too tangled up in the "My style is roxxorz and yors iz poodoo" malarkey. Purity of execution of technique is a sight to see, whatever it comes from and once someones put you on your bum a couple of times you tend to stop being blinded by 'Style Blinkers'.

 

[exile]

Any news one when this should be published ? (Sorry if this info is in the link, I am not doing looking at MT yet so I haven't checked it out!)

I've been planning on writing to SO'N to ask him just this question, Lauren. Will post info on the publication date as soon as I have any, I promise.

...what I'm on about is we don't get too tangled up in the "My style is roxxorz and yors iz poodoo" malarkey. Purity of execution of technique is a sight to see, whatever it comes from and once someones put you on your bum a couple of times you tend to stop being blinded by 'Style Blinkers'.

See, that's the thing I like about the perspective of most of the UK MAists I've encountered: very pragmatic, very willing to accept the verdict of experience (especially `hard' experience ) and look at things from the practical perspective `how can I utilize what you know, to my own advancement?' I'm not saying that we don't have this in N. America; I think of Brian van Cise's Instinctive Response Training as a great example of the same experimental attitude, willing to synthesize techniques and see the best side of all TMA methods. But I think the culture of the MAs in the U.S., the lowest-common-denominator attitude, is as a rule much more adversarial, harsh in its reaction to alternatives and quick to insist that the question `is MA X better than MA Y??' is meaningful and fair.

Maybe it's to be expected. That kind of absolute either/or view is something I think of as kind of Puritanical in nature... and it was the Brits who kicked their Puritans out, and over to the New World, where we are all their cultural descendents. (Just kidding!!!... well, wait a second, maybe not... hmmm....)

 

[FieldDiscipline]

and once someones put you on your bum a couple of times you tend to stop being blinded by 'Style Blinkers'.

Heh. How true.

 

[exile]

Any news one when this should be published ? (Sorry if this info is in the link, I am not doing looking at MT yet so I haven't checked it out!)

A quick update, to answer your query, Lauren: I sent Simon a note, and heard back from him this morning. His book is finished, so far as the text goes. The sticking point now is the photos: he needs to have around 500 of them taken, and estimates that based on the time required for that, the book will be out either shortly before the end of this year or early in the new year.

Simon described the book as follows:

The upshot is a three-part text. The first deals with historical concerns, the place of patterns in self-defence, and the validity of the Kukki patterns as SD methods. The second, and longest, is an analysis of the patterns themselves. The third is an examination of how to implement the methods proposed as a syllabus.​

As I wrote him back, I'm really looking forward to this book, whose appearance will be very timely given the resurgence of interest I see (in some quarters at least) in TKD as a serious street-worthy SD system, and I'm particularly happy to see that he'll be addressing curricular matters in the text. Just as with forms themselves, it's also true in teaching: knowledge isn't enough by itself; the implementation has to be on target as well...

 

[Kodiak61]

As a retired USAF Security Forces NCO, I have had to defend myself, in the line of duty, on a number of occasions. I found the “truth” of the matter is not “style”, training and dedication to improving self. Now before the lurkers starting jumping out a talking about MMA, let’s point out the MMA is a SPORT. Self defense is a situation w/o rule, protective equipment, or a referee to stop the fight if someone is getting the snot stomped out of them. For the record I have a Black Belt in TKD; however I have a bag of tricks for years of experience. I have informally study with other martial artist, formally been trained in (what is now termed) US Army Combatives, and USAF Personnel Apprehension and Restraint Techniques. We should train hard and train often; it boils down to the individual.

 

[Laurentkd]

A quick update, to answer your query, Lauren: I sent Simon a note, and heard back from him this morning. His book is finished, so far as the text goes. The sticking point now is the photos: he needs to have around 500 of them taken, and estimates that based on the time required for that, the book will be out either shortly before the end of this year or early in the new year.

Simon described the book as follows:

The upshot is a three-part text. The first deals with historical concerns, the place of patterns in self-defence, and the validity of the Kukki patterns as SD methods. The second, and longest, is an analysis of the patterns themselves. The third is an examination of how to implement the methods proposed as a syllabus.​

As I wrote him back, I'm really looking forward to this book, whose appearance will be very timely given the resurgence of interest I see (in some quarters at least) in TKD as a serious street-worthy SD system, and I'm particularly happy to see that he'll be addressing curricular matters in the text. Just as with forms themselves, it's also true in teaching: knowledge isn't enough by itself; the implementation has to be on target as well...

Thanks for the update sir!

 

[exile]

Thanks for the update sir!

My pleasure, Lauren!