Interesting Article on Referee Accuracy in Point Sparring

[Stac3y]

http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2008/06/01/referee-accuracy-in-point-sparring-a-case-study/

Comments? Thoughts?

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Judgine for point sparring tournaments is absolutely horrible. I have and continue to judge point sparring tournaments, and am constantly amazed at other judges who give points to shots they can not see at all, or award points late because they are influenced by spectators or another vocal judge.

I think the solution is already here, but is expensive. Adidas makes a chest piece that includes blue tooth technology that measures hits and force and transmits them to a computer. I think this is the way it will eventually go, and instead of multiple judges there will be one ref, and one scorekeepr monitoring the equipment and making sure its recording correctly.

 

[Andrew Green]

http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2008/06/01/referee-accuracy-in-point-sparring-a-case-study/

Comments? Thoughts?

I think the important thing that most competitors forget is that it is not about what happened or who scored, that doesn't decide the score. What decides the score is what the referee and judges see happen.

And yes, it is hard to pick out what scored and what didn't. Especially if the event has subjective criteria attached like "good power and focus", or did the kick that passed 2" in front of the face score, or not? Because it was 2", but the leg was fully extended and it wasn't going to reach the target...

This is pretty much across the board though, not just point fighting. Judges decisions in full contact fighting like MMA can be pretty bad too.

 

[Ninjamom]

Here's one that really struck me, from a few months back:
http://www.physorg.com/news137416339.html

Red all over: how the color red affects a referee's judgment
Aug 2008

Psychologists Norbert Hagemann, Bernd Strauss and Jan Leibing from the University of Munster specifically found that referees tended to assign more points to tae kwon do competitors dressed in red than those dressed in blue.

The researchers presented 42 experienced tae kwon do referees with videos of blue- and red-clad competitors sparring. The two sets of clips were identical except that the colors were reversed in the second set, making the red athlete appear to be wearing blue and vice versa.
>
The psychologists found that when the competitors appeared to be wearing red, they were awarded an average of 13% more points than the blue competitors, even though every athlete was presented in both colors at some point.

 

[Stac3y]

Here's one that really struck me, from a few months back:
http://www.physorg.com/news137416339.html

Woohoo! I just got a red gi!

 

[BrandonLucas]

Bad judging is just one of those things you take in stride when point sparring...it's like getting mad when your favorite Idol is voted off of American Idol. It happens.

Bad judging has always been there, and will always be there. It's just one of those things you accept when you sign up to compete in a point tournement. Especially the stop point matches.

My advice: if you don't like the judging, find another type of tournement to compete in....either that, or invest in the hogu's that LuckyKBoxer was talking about.

 

[ATC]

Here's one that really struck me, from a few months back:
http://www.physorg.com/news137416339.html

Red all over: how the color red affects a referee's judgment
Aug 2008

Psychologists Norbert Hagemann, Bernd Strauss and Jan Leibing from the University of Munster specifically found that referees tended to assign more points to tae kwon do competitors dressed in red than those dressed in blue.

The researchers presented 42 experienced tae kwon do referees with videos of blue- and red-clad competitors sparring. The two sets of clips were identical except that the colors were reversed in the second set, making the red athlete appear to be wearing blue and vice versa.
>
The psychologists found that when the competitors appeared to be wearing red, they were awarded an average of 13% more points than the blue competitors, even though every athlete was presented in both colors at some point.

RED it is then.

 

[Stac3y]

RED it is then.

Interesting article. I wonder how red compares to black, or white, since those are the two most common gi colors. And how black compares to white, also.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Judgine for point sparring tournaments is absolutely horrible. I have and continue to judge point sparring tournaments, and am constantly amazed at other judges who give points to shots they can not see at all, or award points late because they are influenced by spectators or another vocal judge.

I think the solution is already here, but is expensive. Adidas makes a chest piece that includes blue tooth technology that measures hits and force and transmits them to a computer. I think this is the way it will eventually go, and instead of multiple judges there will be one ref, and one scorekeepr monitoring the equipment and making sure its recording correctly.

I agree. The couple of times I have been involved as a judge, I hear the lead / head judge make comments like:

"It must a clean and clear hit. "

I ask for demonstrations, and even provide glancing slaps and strikes to the floating parts of uniforms arms. I am told they are not valid strikes so I move on. (* Which I am glad for *)

Then it turns into either the highest belt wins because they were the highest belt

Or it turns into the guy who yells the loudest and slaps himself the hardest to make it sound like contact.

I got schooled by the Center Judge for not calling points. I told him If you are standing in front of me and the strike is coming from the other side from the opponent facing me and hitting the front of the person that has their back to me, how can I see it?

They just get mad and shake their heads.

I think it is very subjective.

I have no idea how to fix it.

 

[Stac3y]

I think the important thing to realize is that no one, not even a high-ranking, experienced judge, can see everything. Point sparring moves really fast if it's any good, and everybody has to blink. Except lizards, but I digress. I'm not saying some judges don't make unfair calls--I've been the victim of that a time or three--but I think in most cases it's not intentional. I know I miss quite a few calls when I judge in the junior classes. I think light contact makes it even harder, because with heavier hits you can at least see the person getting hit get pushed back.

 

[ATC]

I have no idea how to fix it.

Electronic Hogu's (chest protectors). They are already being used and will be used more and more as they improve the technology.

 

[Stac3y]

Electronic Hogu's (chest protectors). They are already being used and will be used more and more as they improve the technology.

I believe there's a lot of controversy about how well these function. I think there was a thread on MT a couple of months ago, in fact. And considering that groin, face, and head are legitimate targets in my art, they are a no-go. Too bad instant replay would be prohibitively expensive and time-consuming.

 

[ATC]

I believe there's a lot of controversy about how well these function. I think there was a thread on MT a couple of months ago, in fact. And considering that groin, face, and head are legitimate targets in my art, they are a no-go. Too bad instant replay would be prohibitively expensive and time-consuming.

They have already been used as recent as the 2009 US Open. As for head and face shots they will still have corner judges for those. Head shots are easy seen and clear points that no one can really dispute if hit hard enough. The electronic hogu's will be implimented by 2012 if not sooner.

 

[Becca]

It depends on the judge really. A lot of the time in my art the judges have no choice but to judge, it's simply part of being a BB. If they really don't want to be there they just won't pay as much attention. I agree with stacy, people do have to blink of course but sometimes there's just no excuse.

For example during one competition during the year I lost to a heavy weight fighter (I'm light to middle weight but I digress) I was stopped by no more than four different blackbelts (None of them afiliated with me or my club) Who were positive I won by three or four points.

Of course there's no point in arguing, you just get yourself suspended. It can be rather annoying but it's just something that's there. You just get on with it. Judges are human.