I class it as independent because our GM is the controlling body. I regard affiliation to an org where many different clubs, run independently of each other and each with their own GM are members of the same org such as the kukkiwon for example. I say our club is independent because we dont answer to a higher body and all students are graded by the same GM and chief instructor.
Now, not that this is always important, although to some I'm sure it is, but how is the issue of rank handled with an indep. vs. an org.? Again, for myself, I view this as when it happens, it happens. Of course, as we all know, some people look forward to getting new rank.Absolutely there are wonderful and reputable organizations out there. The Kukkiwon even has that handy dandy poom/dan check mechanism on their site.
Most independents, from what I have seen, have simply duplicated the rank processes with which they are familiar, insuring that they hold a 'rank' that is high enough to give out those promotions. In some cases, the independent simply declares him or herself to be the rank that they earned prior to breaking off. In other cases, they simply declare themselves ninth dan due to being the head of the organization and promote as needed.Good point.
They acheived rank under different circumstances. We start everyone with the yellow belt material, they may wear what ever color belt they need to, but they are still white belts.
Local schools of the same art as yours? Local schools of the same art within the same organization as yours?
Of course, IMHO, anyone who is seriously considering training, should do their homework. I dont know, for me, I think its important to have some sort of source to go to. I suppose it goes back to what was talked about in this thread.How does your curriculum differ from an ATA school? What forms are you using? Are your sparring rules the same?
To an extent, I agree. Having a source is important, but an organization does not always make the best source; just look at the state of taekwondo. Three big orgs and plenty of daycare centers masquerading as MA schools under their auspices. Outside of taekwondo, there is plenty of bad-budo with organizational backing.So in other words, they promote themselves.
I'd say yes, it is possible; the school owner may be ranked in an organization and train with a master in that organization but may, for whatever reason, have chosen to maintain his or her studio as an independent, issuing only 'school certificates' with no organizational involvement at all. Or the school owner may have simply been studying for years from another indepenent master who's lineage goes straight to the founder.Question: Is it possible for an indy, to go to a source for training and possibly rank, and not be a part of that sources org? I probably know the answer to this already, but figured I'd get a 2nd opinion.
Question: Is it possible for an indy, to go to a source for training and possibly rank, and not be a part of that sources org? I probably know the answer to this already, but figured I'd get a 2nd opinion.
I don't lump them together so much as use the TKD orgs as an example of where being associated with a large organization is not necessarily an indicator of quality or even solid lineage. There are many excellent instructors, schools, and school owners with KKW credentials. Most of taekwondo's issues have to do with the fact that there are far more taekwondo schools than there are of other arts, which has been very enticing to entrepreneurs.
Not a question of fault; the Kukkiwon doesn't certify any schools at all. It certifies the rank of individuals and establishes the curriculum that those individuals should be versed in. Individuals ranked at fourth dan or higher may sign dan certificates up to second dan, and thus may run their own school. Anyone may teach Kukki Taekwondo, certified or not.
Not exactly. The Kukkiwon was never designed to regulate schools. They were originally meant to provide a common ground for all KMA; take these minimums and add to them your unique curriculum. That way every KMA would have had a central rank registry and every KMA would have had an overlap of common ground. Didn't work out that way, as many KMA kwans did not sign on.
If the schools are actual organization schools, then it looks inconsistent. Regarding the KKW, they don't "have" any schools; only people who choose to teach their curriculum and receive certification in it. Kind of like being certified in CPR, Turbokick, or ASE certified; none of those groups own your shop or the shop you work for. Your shop stands or falls on its own.
Yes; those standards are set by the individual school based upon the Kukkiwon curriculum. This is partly because the individual schools can, and often do, have additional curriculum; KKW's core curriculum is comparatively sparse. Though it is more thorough than many think, it still includes no grapples, ground fighting, joint locks, or weapons. Above a certain dan grade (fifth and higher I believe), individuals must test at the Kukkiwon. At least in my area, and from what I've seen on the web, most school owners teaching KKW curriculum are fifth dan an up.
So, it seems then that what you mention above really doesnt seem to fit the description or at least how I view, an organization. I mean, it seems like they are, to a point, but again, it doesnt seem like they're monitoring things. Yes to all of the above. But to the uninformed customer, the assumption is that the Kukkiwon is like other orgs and does monitor things at the school level.Ok, thanks for your reply.
Absolutely. There are certainly pros and cons to the KKW approach, just as there are pros and cons to the more hand on organization approach. All depends on what you are looking for. The obvious advantage for the school owner is that they can maintain a great deal of independence regarding the curriculum: teach this plus whatever you want. Outside of that, they can do as they wish. Geub grades are not tracked, so if you wanted to teach Kukki TKD and have white belts and black belts only, you could do that, though it would be very unusual.
