In-Close Fighting

[frank raud]

I think you are right. When I think of in fighting I think of inside a clinch, no room to work, just enough room to set up sweeps or drop seio-nagi or dirty boxing. Clinch work.
lori

No problem. I still am curious about Draven's comment that striking, weapons and grappling fall apart at close in range. I would like to see his response.

 

[MJS]

No problem. I still am curious about Draven's comment that striking, weapons and grappling fall apart at close in range. I would like to see his response.

Ditto, I'm curious about that as well. There's alot that can be done in those ranges.

 

[Draven]

How do you grapple outside of the in-fighting range? Certain weapons are more appropriate for close range fighting than fighting at a distance, the knives that most people carry these days is an example. Most striking arts have multiple techniques for working up close and personal.

Nothing wrong with wanting to make space, but there are plenty of options at close range.

Well I teach three ranges & anything can be applied at any range, its simply a matter the most common range in which fighting techniques occur. This starts at weapons range; which is outside your normal reach, striking range; which is punching/kicking range, in-fighting range; which is were strikes like knees and elbows, throws, takedowns and grappling are all applicatible & ends at grappling range; which is body to body contact where grappling and wrestling are most common.

I never said they fail apart I said they collapse; as in they all overlap & at that range. At the In-fighting range you have more options but so does the other guy thus it collapses or implodes at that range.

 

[Kittan Bachika]

From what I have seen of real tajitsu, this group is actually taking what they learn and applying it. Contact is a always a good thing.

I have seen some schools who train to a specific style and then when they spar it gets reduced to kick boxing. Nothing wrong with kick boxing, but if you are going to fight like a kick boxer you might as well learn kick boxing.

 

[teekin]

Well I teach three ranges & anything can be applied at any range, its simply a matter the most common range in which fighting techniques occur. This starts at weapons range; which is outside your normal reach, striking range; which is punching/kicking range, in-fighting range; which is were strikes like knees and elbows, throws, takedowns and grappling are all applicatible & ends at grappling range; which is body to body contact where grappling and wrestling are most common.

I never said they fail apart I said they collapse; as in they all overlap & at that range. At the In-fighting range you have more options but so does the other guy thus it collapses or implodes at that range.

I must dissagree about the first part. If you are in tight enough to set up a throw there is no way I know of for the other guy to throw an effective elbow. His humerous is longer than my rib cage. Physics forbids contact. How can you rewrite basic laws of phyics? To nullify a boxers power you either get inside the arc of power or stay outside range. That is why finding the other guys range and rythme is so crucial, yes?

I agree with the other part about knife and stick. Getting in tight with a weapon is a whole nother ball game. A stick can break small joints in tight and a knife in tight is brutal dangerous.

The idea that what works at middle range collapes in on in itself/ implodes at clinch range is a nice one. The first thing you must to is make room to work. If you can show otherwise Please do. I am new to MA and would love to see Vids. The more I learn the better. Lets face it what I do know is a drop in the ocean compares to what I don't know.

humbley
lori

 

[jks9199]

I must dissagree about the first part. If you are in tight enough to set up a throw there is no way I know of for the other guy to throw an effective elbow. His humerous is longer than my rib cage. Physics forbids contact. How can you rewrite basic laws of phyics? To nullify a boxers power you either get inside the arc of power or stay outside range. That is why finding the other guys range and rythme is so crucial, yes?

I agree with the other part about knife and stick. Getting in tight with a weapon is a whole nother ball game. A stick can break small joints in tight and a knife in tight is brutal dangerous.

The idea that what works at middle range collapes in on in itself/ implodes at clinch range is a nice one. The first thing you must to is make room to work. If you can show otherwise Please do. I am new to MA and would love to see Vids. The more I learn the better. Lets face it what I do know is a drop in the ocean compares to what I don't know.

humbley
lori

There are different types of elbows; not all are the "swinging" type that it seems you may be thinking of. These are indeed hard to deliver once you're inside the length of the upper arm -- but thrusting elbows, elbow spikes, and others can often be done even literally face-to-face with someone. When you power the technique with the body (a principle found in many arts, though very often not used well), you can often deliver power from a number of natural weapons at surprisingly short ranges.

 

[MJS]

Well I teach three ranges & anything can be applied at any range, its simply a matter the most common range in which fighting techniques occur. This starts at weapons range; which is outside your normal reach, striking range; which is punching/kicking range, in-fighting range; which is were strikes like knees and elbows, throws, takedowns and grappling are all applicatible & ends at grappling range; which is body to body contact where grappling and wrestling are most common.

I never said they fail apart I said they collapse; as in they all overlap & at that range. At the In-fighting range you have more options but so does the other guy thus it collapses or implodes at that range.

Ahh..ok, thanks for the clarification. I was a bit confused with your choice of wording.

 

[frank raud]

Well I teach three ranges & anything can be applied at any range, its simply a matter the most common range in which fighting techniques occur. This starts at weapons range; which is outside your normal reach, striking range; which is punching/kicking range, in-fighting range; which is were strikes like knees and elbows, throws, takedowns and grappling are all applicatible & ends at grappling range; which is body to body contact where grappling and wrestling are most common.

I never said they fail apart I said they collapse; as in they all overlap & at that range. At the In-fighting range you have more options but so does the other guy thus it collapses or implodes at that range.

Maybe it's just me, but I count four ranges.

Definition of collapse:
break down, literally or metaphorically; "The wall collapsed"; "The business collapsed"; "The dam broke"; "The roof collapsed"; "The wall gave in"; "The roof finally gave under the weight of the ice"
break down: collapse due to fatigue, an illness, or a sudden attack
fold or close up; "fold up your umbrella"; "collapse the music stand"
crumble: fall apart; "the building crumbled after the explosion"; "Negotiations broke down"
an abrupt failure of function or complete physical exhaustion; "the commander's prostration demoralized his men"
cause to burst; "The ice broke the pipe"
a natural event caused by something suddenly falling down or caving in; "the roof is in danger of collapse"; "the collapse of the old star under its own gravity"
crack up: suffer a nervous breakdown
flop: the act of throwing yourself down; "he landed on the bed with a great flop"
lose significance, effectiveness, or value; "The school system is collapsing"; "The stock market collapsed"
crash: a sudden large decline of business or the prices of stocks (especially one that causes additional failures)

 

[edgedweapons]

I see the little hint of Wing Chun. practicing in this range should be primary since most fights start and end there.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Himura,

1.The point is the technique must be good enough to stop a hard punch (or deflect it.) Never ever 'assume' the other guy will throw weak punches or kicks unless you know just who the attacker is. I shock people quite often in TKD class when I have them in one step sparring I'll throw a hook instead of a punch (and tell them that beforehand) and what happens, their block has no power to stop it. All because they practice the technique without any power or resistance.

I see the same thing in the self defense part of class. I'll do a real bear hug and when they try to chicken wing out of it, they can't.



2.Wear shin and forearm guards. And if the other guy is inexperienced have them wear a face helmet that guards the face (I have one myself.) Yes stop the punches short, but once they get the idea of blocking a punch pick up the speed and power while keeping control.




3.By that I mean just strait punches. They may throw hooks, overheads, shovels, or haymakers. Never know. Might very well throw a sucker punch to start off the game. You need to teach them all about sucker punches!! And again, don't assume the other guy is ignorant of how to fight.

Deaf

1. I understand what you mean, but but if someone is too uncooperative it could lead to injury for training partners, but yes, realism is needed.

2. I'm not a big fan of pads unless you have an existing injury, plus i never recommend stopping punches short. This just seems to be a differences in our training approaches.

3. I'd never assume someone doesn't know how to fight. A person can get beaten by anyone under the right conditions, it is good to show how to apply techniques against different attacks so here I would agree.