In Canada no less

[Twin Fist]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-sharia-law-being-imposed-in-a-canadian-middle-school-ask-the-menstruating-young-girls/

• Critics claim Toronto District School Board is breaching Ontario’s Education Law by allowing Islamic prayer during the school day
• An outside imam comes to the school to conduct weekly prayer meetings
• Young girls who are menstruating are not allowed to participate and are separated from the group

In America, the debate over prayer and its place in public schools never seems to simmer. But, we’re not alone. The heated discussion over faith in public education is occurring in Toronto, Canada, as well. In addition to general frustration over prayer, advocates and critics are outraged by the fact that young Islamic girls are separated from others during meetings due to menstruation – a provision that indicates Sharia law is potentially being imposed in the public school.


yeah, no WAY sharia could ever be imposed in North America.........
​

 

[Sukerkin]

Given that I think that acts of formalised worship have no place outside of a private setting, then I suppose I actually rather agree that this should not be happening at all, let alone that segregation in line with primitive superstitions should be taking place.

I shall forgo my usual points about mythical beings for the sake of keeping this thread 'on target'. Those who've been around for a while know what I think so there's no sense in ruffling feathers.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Don't know what the laws on this are in Canada.
In the US, I'm fine with it, provided all other faiths are permitted the same opportunity.
After hours of course.

 

[Twin Fist]

this isnt after hours and no other faiths are allowed in Bob

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Do other faiths get similar or compatible treatment?
Again, don't know Canadian laws on the matters.

If this were the US, I don't believe such things currently would fly, as once they made an exception for 1 religion, all the rest would come knocking with their lawyers and the school day would be a total mess. After school programs, I have seen case law on though, and they would be allowed as extracurricular. I used to be a member of a bible study group in high school.

 

[Twin Fist]

but the claim is that the muslim students are supposed to pray at certain times, and one of those is during school hours.

hey, canada can do whats it wants to, they can be france II for all i care, but if you dont see the trend, you aint looking.

it is like a child molester, they dont grab privates on day 1, it starts small and works its way up

it is called grooming, and the process is the same with social change.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

US and Canadian law are different, on a number of areas. Canada's had legal gay marriage for years. About all I see is the country sparkles a bit, but that could be due to their money being worth more than the US's.

Islam does require prayer at certain times. I'm unaware of any US cases where it's been an issue. I don't recall any obvious Muslims in my high school, but it was a predominantly black neighborhood, and over 20 years ago.

 

[Twin Fist]

plus back them, people hadnt learned that they were the most important thing in the universe and were therefore a lot less likely to sue

 

[CanuckMA]

Muslims must pray at certain times. Friday is their main religious day of the week. One of the prayer times was during school hours. Before this was instituted, the Muslim students would leave the school to go to moque and not come back This was see as a workable compromise. As far as the girls being separated, that's standard in a mosque. It's one aspect of the vast and varied body that is Sharia law. It's not Sharia creeping into the Canadian code anymore than me beeing able to use a Rabbinical court to settle a civil matter is an creeping of Halacha in Canadian law.

 

[Carol]

Muslims must pray at certain times. Friday is their main religious day of the week. One of the prayer times was during school hours. Before this was instituted, the Muslim students would leave the school to go to moque and not come back This was see as a workable compromise. As far as the girls being separated, that's standard in a mosque. It's one aspect of the vast and varied body that is Sharia law. It's not Sharia creeping into the Canadian code anymore than me beeing able to use a Rabbinical court to settle a civil matter is an creeping of Halacha in Canadian law.

Or a divorced Catholic going to a priest to determine if the failed marriage can go before Canonical court for an annulment.

 

[JohnEdward]

I am not clear how Canada's issue is an American issue? Pray in school, I think it should not be allowed just to put an end to that annoying controversy. But, since that will not happen, America was founded on freedom of religion, and our country revered Muslims and Islam (especially conservatives), as it had influenced much of our early Nation's leaders, shakers and movers, framers and builders. Hint..hint... builders. And we can find hundreds of references to muslims and Islam in our country. It wasn't until traditional muslims felt threatened by the establishment of Israel and modernization -see the Shah of Iran, Mohammad Rezā Shāh Pahlavi as example- that they stressed our historic reverence for Islam. In fact, many Western countries was Islam revered culturally and religiously for hundreds of centuries. That is evident to the ties Islam has with Judaism, and Christianity. I don't know what the stink is on muslim pray in schools. We do in this country have freedom of religion, for better or worse. I would think the stink would be how bent a muslim would be on killing us non-muslims, and not pray. Not every muslim like christian is bent on killing those who are non-believers. Let's face it, christianity had a good run on that for a good long time. If there is going to pray in school, it has to be for all religions, and not imposing one religion on everyone. Canada can do what ever they want, it doesn't mean it will happen here.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Separating genders is not an Islamic-only thing. I believe some branches of Judism and Christianity do so as well.
Some also do have their own dress codes. I recall (though can't find the reference) a report of a Jewish boy in I believe the NYC area suspended over dress code issues as he followed the strict traditional path which conflicted with a schools uniform and grooming policy. I believe he was given an exemption on religious grounds after a court case.

John hit 3 bullet points in his OP

• Critics claim Toronto District School Board is breaching Ontario’s Education Law by allowing Islamic prayer during the school day
• An outside imam comes to the school to conduct weekly prayer meetings
• Young girls who are menstruating are not allowed to participate and are separated from the group

2 & 3 fall under the religions rules, with similar in other religions. Not issues IMO.

#1 is the questionable one. Is there a breach of law in this practice?

Also as said, are other faiths given similar consideration, or is this an exception? If similar consideration is given, then it's not a big deal IMO.
If on the other hand this is special treatment, I'd be concerned.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I am not clear how Canada's issue is an American issue? Pray in school, I think it should not be allowed just to put an end to that annoying controversy. But, since that will not happen, America was founded on freedom of religion, and our country revered Muslims and Islam (especially conservatives), as it had influenced much of our early Nation's leaders, shakers and movers, framers and builders. Hint..hint... builders. And we can find hundreds of references to muslims and Islam in our country. It wasn't until traditional muslims felt threatened by the establishment of Israel and modernization -see the Shah of Iran, Mohammad Rezā Shāh Pahlavi as example- that they stressed our historic reverence for Islam. In fact, many Western countries was Islam revered culturally and religiously for hundreds of centuries. That is evident to the ties Islam has with Judaism, and Christianity. I don't know what the stink is on muslim pray in schools. We do in this country have freedom of religion, for better or worse. I would think the stink would be how bent a muslim would be on killing us non-muslims, and not pray. Not every muslim like christian is bent on killing those who are non-believers. Let's face it, christianity had a good run on that for a good long time. If there is going to pray in school, it has to be for all religions, and not imposing one religion on everyone. Canada can do what ever they want, it doesn't mean it will happen here.

I think there is a fear that as Canada goes, so eventually will the US. If too much 'consideration' is given to 1 religion over others, it can present the illusion of encouragement. With current misconceptions and misunderstandings about Islam running rampant, there is worry that the US will splinter, with the dominant Christian faiths being forced to conform to laws that are not compatible with their world views. I think the fear is ungrounded, however it is a valid one and reasonable precautions should be in place to keep any one faith from overwhelming and dominating others. Those precaustions however need to be fair and just, so that we aren't restricting Islamic domination by institutionalizing Christian restrictions. Us Pagan Heathens appreciate the consideration.

I've said often it is unlikely and improbable that Sharia laws will take over the US.
It's not impossible though, as if enough influence is brought to bear, a gradual slide will occur and in 100 years the legal landscape quite different.
It has happened before.

 

[CanuckMA]

Separating genders is not an Islamic-only thing. I believe some branches of Judism and Christianity do so as well.
Some also do have their own dress codes. I recall (though can't find the reference) a report of a Jewish boy in I believe the NYC area suspended over dress code issues as he followed the strict traditional path which conflicted with a schools uniform and grooming policy. I believe he was given an exemption on religious grounds after a court case.

John hit 3 bullet points in his OP

• Critics claim Toronto District School Board is breaching Ontario’s Education Law by allowing Islamic prayer during the school day
• An outside imam comes to the school to conduct weekly prayer meetings
• Young girls who are menstruating are not allowed to participate and are separated from the group

2 & 3 fall under the religions rules, with similar in other religions. Not issues IMO.

#1 is the questionable one. Is there a breach of law in this practice?

Also as said, are other faiths given similar consideration, or is this an exception? If similar consideration is given, then it's not a big deal IMO.
If on the other hand this is special treatment, I'd be concerned.

There is no breach of law. BTW, it has been going on for years. It was a workable compromise. Students were leaving the school to go to mosque and not returning to finish the afternoon. It was decided to bting the mosque to them, on school property so they could keep doing what they were already doing and then return to class.

And you are right. Orthodox Judaism separates men and women in public settings. I will not touch or be alone with a woman other than my wife and do not touch my wife in public.

 

[Twin Fist]

are christians allowed to pray and have religious services on school property? if not then there is something rotten in toronto

 

[Sukerkin]

This is what some of the legal thinkers have to say on the matter:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/08/academics-say-law-allows-for-prayer

 

[Bob Hubbard]

are christians allowed to pray and have religious services on school property? if not then there is something rotten in toronto

You mean besides the regularly scheduled garbage strikes?

 

[Scott T]

This is what some of the legal thinkers have to say on the matter:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/08/academics-say-law-allows-for-prayer

Found this interesting:

Parents, politicians and groups including the Muslim Canadian Congress have questioned the decision to allow religious teachings in a public school.

Kinda flies in the face of the beliefs of the 'All camel-jockies are evil and wanna take over the world' crowd

 

[CanuckMA]

are christians allowed to pray and have religious services on school property? if not then there is something rotten in toronto

Different. Xtians don't have a mandatory prayer during school hours.

 

[CanuckMA]

Found this interesting:

Kinda flies in the face of the beliefs of the 'All camel-jockies are evil and wanna take over the world' crowd

Muslim Canadian Congress is a very secular organization.