silatman said:
Unfortunately aren't young gilrs attracted to this scum to rebel against the parents wishes.
It is a something that I see... though not on a large scale. I recall a few days ago waiting for a bus and seeing this lovely young girl walk up and stand near by. A few moments later this guy with spiked hair, black torn t-shirt, and other Gen X punked out (or whatever it's called these days) comes up and puts his arm around her waist (and she around his) then publically begins to fondle her ***. The girl wasn't "unusually dressed; plain colored t-shirt and jeans and clogs. Was thinking how could this really nice looking girl go for a guy like THAT? Then a voice in me head says: "Because it would piss off Mummy and Daddy."
silatman said:
I think the courts (at least in Australia) need a dose of reality and lock these people away from law abiding citizens and stop preaching the old "its not their fault it was the environment they were bought up in" routine.
And those folks are about as naive as you can get. It ain't the environment... well it is... the HOME environment.
silatman said:
Where are the victims rights in all of this, whos protecting them.
Where indeed? With ANY crime this particular detail is continually overlooked. Not as bad as before but it's still prevalent.
Bammx2 said:
Somewhere along the way,someone decided to label people born between 1965 and 1976 were known as "generation X".
The Ones born after were called "generatation next".
Now I don't know about the rest of you,but the X'ers where I come from would have never made it to court or even the police as kids if we would have treated ANY female of any age like that no matter how much we begged!
In my family (in the deep south) if something like that happened,there would be a family BBQ to go along with the "family whoopin" that was commin!
And the girls family would be invited too!
Kids might not fear the law anymore because of all these bleeding heart civil liberties groups,and to some extent we didn't fear the law that much either.......we feared mom and dad when the police got involved!
My dad used to say..."to a true gentleman,they are ALL ladies".
My mom used to file her fingernails into points so she could get a better grip when I tried to run!
Believe it or not friends and neighbors........
Parents need to resume a proper parenting role in thier childrens lives instead of letting society do it for them!
Well here's the thing... yes, majority of the responsibility of rearing children in this and ANY time lies with the parent. But society also plays a huge role. How can a parent teach and maintain values of being a gentleman/lady to their children when we are seeing lax morals in our day to day advertising? In PG-13 movies I'm seeing and hearing stuff that would've been called R when I was a kid... and I would've never been able to go NEAR them in a theater.. with or without my parents.
It would seem that Gen X-ers are a lazy lot that they don't want to take the time to teach their children the proper morals and values so that these incidents (of the article) are few and very far between. But who is establishing these morals and values? By who's standards are we measuring them against? Society decides that. Remember in Thailand it's okay for an adult to lay down sexually with a minor. Here in the U.S. our society says it's wrong! But our society doth not protest too much when a 14 yr. old girl wears short-short cut off jeans and a loose fitting tank top with no bra, because it's a hot summer's day. Nor does our society protest too much about minors going to see R rated movies that have at or just below B-level pornographic scenes. Same with television. I'm starting to hear words on TV that used to be on George Carlin's list. Same with video games (X-box and the like) where i.e. Grand Theft Auto has scenes of loose women and randy men sprinkled in there amongst the violence. Music as well. At work, the guys I work along side listen to hip-hop and rap... (drives me farkin NUTS!) and 90% of the time all I'm hearing is M-F, M-F, F-that ***** and so on and so on. What is the message that these young guys are getting from such constant exposure. Something more powerful than a nice quiet heart to heart talk of "Son, it's proper to be a gentleman when you're out on a date..."
Society HELPS the parent to establish these values, morals and standards in our children, or is at least supposed to. And yes, even a 16 yr. old is
still a child though physiologically they're able to reproduce and have children of their own. Mentally and emotionally they're not ready to cut it.
hardheadjarhead said:
My question is whether this is a "trend." Note too the article states that research indicates this teen violence reflects the behavior found among adults.
Justice Department statistics also show that the median age for sex offenders below the age of eighteen is fourteen. The median age for victims below eighteen is also fourteen. Some of those victims are molested by older people, of course...and some of those young perpetrators molest children far younger than themselves.
Well just because it's a 14 yr. old boy doing it to a 14 yr. old girl doesn't make it right by any means. And yes, these young perps are doing it to children far younger because it's easier. They don't have to worry about any resistance or much of a fight. Younger children are more easily swayed and intimidated. They're also less likely to tell because they're too young to really understand what just happened is WRONG! Why? becuause they're too young to be taught the birds and the bees. Which IMO alot of people mis-interpret.
A child of 3-6 yrs old can be taught the diffrence between "good touch" and "bad touch" and should be taught to tell if someone "bad-touches" them. 7-12 can be taught about upcoming hormonial changes and what to expect and what will be happening to them and why they're feeling something they've never felt before. And so on til they reach that age where they're capable of reproduction and then the birds and the bees talk.
The younger a person is when first talked about "sexual matters" (appropriately of course

) the easier it will be when they hit the dating age and make the appropriate choices of conduct, thus reducing the risk of STD's and pregnancy. Likewise reducing the risk of getting so worked up that a date-rape happens.
hardheadjarhead said:
We ought to note here the myth of the "innocence of youth." We view people under the age of eighteen (or sixteen or seventeen, depending on the criteria) as "children." While there is clear evidence that neurological maturity doesn't take place until the early twenties, we still fail to recognize that they're physically mature in their mid...if not early...teens.
Yes, but we know (as adults) that mentally and emotionally they're not. Our present age and experiences
tells us this is a
fact. Why do you think we built a above 18 section here on MT? Because those who are responsible know this
fact with every fiber of our beings. The "innocence of youth" isn't so much a myth but a misaligned fact of life. Kids today are wiser because of the exposure by media (movies, TV, radio/music, etc.). Parents have to keep up. It's their responsibility to keep up and keep ahead. Parents
should be wiser than their kids right? But kids are so well informed that we mistake the idea that they're not so innocent. They know this stuff... but do they
really understand it? It's up to the parent to make sure that they do. If they don't then make the corrections where needed... then, then take the opportunity to instill personal values and morals that you wish your child to have. Tell them peer pressure be damned.
hardheadjarhead said:
When they hit their teen years they go insane with the influx of hormones (and this is not too light a word in describing my own adolescence). We who are well past that age still project innocence onto them...and in some instances demand innocence. Those flaming libidos, however, are not to be ignored.
Exactly. So who's responsible for making these kids understand and learn to cope with these raging hormones? And when? Parents and
society. Those of you who are Martial Arts instructors and have children's classes, should take advantage of the situation at hand. I
love the school where a friend sends their kids to Kenpo classes. The instructors there not only teach Kenpo techniques and practices but they also take the time to instill good values of respect and honor to adults (parents and instructors and others). To teach an understanding that they techniques they are learning are for defense only and not to be used for offensive maneuvers. Because when you think about it, as martial artists, we learn techniques, pressure points, holds, etc. to be used not only as defensive weapons but also (if we choose) offensively. To control and subdue an opponent. In context a young teenage couple parked in a car: young guy is trying to make a "conquest" either with making out or petting or whatever. He, who is a MA student
could use a particular hold or pressure point to get what he wants. I'm not saying that they all will, but it's a possibility and we have to face and accept that random possiblity. I recall a quote from Masters and Johnson:
There is no guarantee that a child raised in a good environment will turn out good, just the same that there is no guarantee that a child raised in a bad environment will turn out bad... in fact when it comes to children there's no guarantee period... good luck!
hardheadjarhead said:
The number of teenagers in America is on the rise, and will soon outnumber the Baby Boom generations peak of the fifties/sixties. They're recognized by corporate America now as a huge source of potential revenue. They're the "wired" generation as well. Given that retailers are marketing sexuality to them, and the internet is what it is...can we honestly expect to shield them from issues of the flesh and maintain their "purity?"
I think you can call these kids the
wireless age but that's nit-picking. Yes retailers are marketing sexuality to them, media and everything else. Used to be that gays were shunned and replused in society, now they're more welcomed and it's OK. "Times", Bob Dylan sang long ago, "they are a changing." Can we honestly expect to shield them? Yes we can, but we cannot do it alone, American (and elsewhere) society has to put it's collective foot down and ban these suggestive marketing techniques and suggestive material. But again you're going to get those freedom of speech folks to say hey, we've a right to say (read: advertise) what we want, how we want, where and when we want. Remember shows about pioneers where the most racy thing out there was a Montgomery Sears catalog with ladies bloomers? Now we have all nude advertising by Victoria's Secrets hanging in the malls. In one case the society protested enough that the particular store took down that advertising. So it is possible. Just have to get enough voice to make it happen.
Adults have a right to buy suggestive clothing for private use. But children do NOT have the right to see the things they don't understand completely. They keep seeing the same thing over and over and think... well it's okay to see a naked body posed that way.
Society and environment plays a
huge role along with the parents to what our children learn and don't learn at appropriate ages. Changes in morals and values (degrading changes that is) is so subtle that unless you step outside and actually LOOK you won't see them. Just a shrug of the shoulders and say wow don't remember that when I was a kid and shake our heads and walk away focusing our minds at whatever else we were thinking of. Not exactly ignoring the consenquences but just not even "thinking" of them because we've got other stuff to worry about. Mortages, car payments, career advancements, next week's anniversary, and so on.
hardheadjarhead said:
At some point we're going to have to sit down with them and have a frank discussion about issues of sex, sexual abuse, and the dynamics of sex in interpersonal relationships. As a nation we're blowing it...both liberals and conservatives alike. I think a large part of this failure is due to our delaying the "birds and bees" talk until that time when they're awash in testosterone. By then they're fully into their phase of rebellion, and it is far too late.
Regards,
Steve
I would disagree here a wee bit. I think it's NEVER too late to catch and head off rebellion at any age. It's a matter of wills. Being able to contest a haughty teenager takes a lot out of one I'll admit but it's possible to get through "that thick skull" of theirs and make them
T-H-I-N-K! To make them change?? That's still up to them. But if they see an example that they think is a good one and one that they can admire and
understand and if they see consistency in it then perhaps it's likely.
As far as sitting down and having that heart to heart... how many actually want to do that. You've got the (for-real) stereotype of "honey, you talk to him/her" and "Awww Dad/Mom pluzzzeeezzeee" and the total uncomfortableness of the "talk." Why? Because (IMO) it's not done soon enough and
regular enough where it
IS comfortable. One advice I heard (and liked) was when talking with kids about sex/morals/values is to find out what they DO know about it and then find all the errors they have. How many of you remember the "locker-room" talks about "doing it"? How many of you recall ... how badly mistaken it all was?
I remember sometime ago there was a (local/national??) protest about having sex-ed in schools. About how it should best be left at home. Well.... read the article again.
It is the parental unit's responsibiltiy to teach proper conduct as dictated by society. Society has to maintain the standards of proper conduct. It ain't easy... witness the picture below and the implications...
Rich Parsons said:
My brother and I made sure that my Niece knew how to hit and or defend herself. She is no Martial Artist, but she knows enough until her interest grews.
While in 9th grade this guy would not leave her alone, and he finally grabbed her butt in the hallway. She turned and put a solid punch into the center of his chest. He went down gasping for air. She said she did not have any problems from him or anyone else after that. It is sad that this is the case, and I do not know how else to solve the problem.
You solved it in the best way possible... her body is her own *** and all.
She dictates when someone can touch/grabs it and when they cannot.
This IMO is not sad but a triumph because enough is enough dammit!
