IMAF Schea site
- Thread starter Datu Tim Hartman
- Start date
OP
- Thread Starter
- #22
Shishir has jioned the IMAF.
I thought he was with Mr. Worden's WMAC as well as having an organization of his own.
Does he have a formal (i.e. titled) role within the IMAF-Schea group?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #24
I don't know about a title. It is listed on his and the IMAF site that Shishir is a member.
Datu Inocalla is indeed a member of the IMAF, inc.. That would be the Dr. Shea one. It appears that there is alot of interest regarding the IMAF, inc. lately. Is this because we are the ones to watch? Oh my, will that begin the flames? I jest. We have alot to keep us busy running our own organization.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #26
Dan, you are correct. You are the ones to watch, but not for the reason that you think.
It is a question of accuracy of representation. The following is one of the claims on the IMAF Shea website:
7. The IMAF has established international presence worldwide: Canada, Philippines, United Kingdom, Europe, South America, and Africa.
This claim has not been substantiated. You claim that there is representation in all of those locations. Let's go through the list.
Africa - No listings
Canada - Confirmed
Europe - Confirmed in Germany, but double listing with the UK being part of Europe.
Philippines - Confirmed
South America - No listings
United Kingdom - Inactive; sole representative returned to US.
Besides some of the countries listed not being confirmed, the true question is who established this presence? I am willing to bet that the presence in these countries was established by Remy himself. If this is the case, this isolated statement by the IMAF is inaccurate or, I may go as far as saying, fraudulent.
I, myself, did not want to start a flame war. There are many claims on the IMAF update that I have questions about. This questioning is not meant as an attack, but I am seeking clarification. No different than when a potential student comes to your school and asks to see your teaching credentials. Let's not turn this thread into a war, as opposed to a venue to share knowledge.
:asian:
Everyone,
What is SOOOOOO!!!!!!! Wrong with belonging to two or more organizations and even being the head of an organization yourself???? I do not see the problem.
But then again being in Japan with 6 hours of sleep in four days may make my perception askew. So, please let me know why is it sooo wrong for people to have friends or belong to other organizations ???
Thanks
Rich
Tim,
Since you have deemed it prudent to "go so far as" to accuse the IMAF of lying, why don't you call Randi and get your answer yourself. Since you apparently don't have enough to keep you busy with your own org., and since you seem to be so insecure as to choose to be contentious with other organizations, try a little. Go farther and call Randi yourself. I am offended that you are so bent on trying to make the IMAF, inc. look bad. We don't lie, cheat or steal. You started this whole thread. I don't know why, but you did. There are alot of people teaching Modern Arnis under alot of different flags, including people who haven't been with the IMAF for many years. Some of them claim to have been close to Remy the whole time. Why don't you take issue with them. If you do, why don't you bring out everything they have said or done and put it on this forum. You have been bent on the IMAF issue for some time. I will "go so far as" to suggest that it is because you never resolved certain issues with Remy while he was still alive. I even tried to help you do this, as you know. Everyone would be better served if they/you kept yourself busy with your own group. Again I say, the IMAF, inc. does not lie, cheat or steal. Shame on you for suggesting that. You know them better than that. I know you have had an issue with at least one of us, but that shouldn't give you cause to attack the entire group on the issues that you have. And you have attacked no matter how you put it. If you wanna go there, then game on. I personally would not.
Dan McConnell
IMAF, inc. Board of Directors
Modern Arnis of Ohio
Since you have deemed it prudent to "go so far as" to accuse the IMAF of lying, why don't you call Randi and get your answer yourself. Since you apparently don't have enough to keep you busy with your own org., and since you seem to be so insecure as to choose to be contentious with other organizations, try a little. Go farther and call Randi yourself. I am offended that you are so bent on trying to make the IMAF, inc. look bad. We don't lie, cheat or steal. You started this whole thread. I don't know why, but you did. There are alot of people teaching Modern Arnis under alot of different flags, including people who haven't been with the IMAF for many years. Some of them claim to have been close to Remy the whole time. Why don't you take issue with them. If you do, why don't you bring out everything they have said or done and put it on this forum. You have been bent on the IMAF issue for some time. I will "go so far as" to suggest that it is because you never resolved certain issues with Remy while he was still alive. I even tried to help you do this, as you know. Everyone would be better served if they/you kept yourself busy with your own group. Again I say, the IMAF, inc. does not lie, cheat or steal. Shame on you for suggesting that. You know them better than that. I know you have had an issue with at least one of us, but that shouldn't give you cause to attack the entire group on the issues that you have. And you have attacked no matter how you put it. If you wanna go there, then game on. I personally would not.
Dan McConnell
IMAF, inc. Board of Directors
Modern Arnis of Ohio
No problem--certainly one can be in the WMAA and whatever other organizations one wishes, for example--but I inferred from what was said that the association was exclusive. I wasn't stating that it was a problem, but that the staus was unclear to me. This wasn't clearly stated so perhaps I am leaping to a conlcusion.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #30
Dan,
Let's do this by the numbers.
1. I asked a simple question about one of the claims on the IMAF site. Does the IMAF have reps in the 6 areas they claim? Africa, South America & United Kingdom have not been substantiated. In addition the countries that are set up, probably were done by Remy himself! The statement on the IMAF site can be misleading or untrue.
Your counter to my statement is "How dare you question us!" The statement is on the net. A public forum. When things are put out in public you need to be prepared to back up what you say. Instead of backing up your group by presenting facts that would shut me up, you play the holier than thou crap. That doesn't fly. My question is still unanswered. Give me the facts, that is all I asked. When I wasn't answered I asked again.
2. Why should I bother asking Randi? He doesn't return e-mail or phone calls. Martial Talk has been around for over a year and he has never even said as much as a word here. My question could have been answered by anyone. Dan Anderson mailed him and didn't hear squat. Remember that? That was the time that you offered to help with the communication. It was good that you offered to help but, if Randi himself wouldn't give Dan an answer what makes you think you could have gotten one. This leads me to #3!
3. Why did you become the self appointed mouth-piece of the IMAF? This is your tag on everything. Are you trying to become a player? Maybe the next MOTT? Don't know what your problem is and I don't care.
I asked a question and this was it;
Okay,
maybe I just don't see this. They have this on their statement.
7. The IMAF has established international presence worldwide: Canada, Philippines, United Kingdom, Europe, South America, and Africa.
I don't see UK, S. America & Africa listed any where on their site. No seminars or schools listed.
Am I missing something?
As far as Europe goes there is one school listed in Germany and that is it.
My question still stands. Can anyone answer this either way. If there are schools that will be listed in the next update or people are completing an instructors course then fine. All I'm asking is for some info.
Respectfully,
Datu Tim Hartman
WMAA
P.S. Here is the smile. :asian:
Let's do this by the numbers.
1. I asked a simple question about one of the claims on the IMAF site. Does the IMAF have reps in the 6 areas they claim? Africa, South America & United Kingdom have not been substantiated. In addition the countries that are set up, probably were done by Remy himself! The statement on the IMAF site can be misleading or untrue.
Your counter to my statement is "How dare you question us!" The statement is on the net. A public forum. When things are put out in public you need to be prepared to back up what you say. Instead of backing up your group by presenting facts that would shut me up, you play the holier than thou crap. That doesn't fly. My question is still unanswered. Give me the facts, that is all I asked. When I wasn't answered I asked again.
2. Why should I bother asking Randi? He doesn't return e-mail or phone calls. Martial Talk has been around for over a year and he has never even said as much as a word here. My question could have been answered by anyone. Dan Anderson mailed him and didn't hear squat. Remember that? That was the time that you offered to help with the communication. It was good that you offered to help but, if Randi himself wouldn't give Dan an answer what makes you think you could have gotten one. This leads me to #3!
3. Why did you become the self appointed mouth-piece of the IMAF? This is your tag on everything. Are you trying to become a player? Maybe the next MOTT? Don't know what your problem is and I don't care.
I asked a question and this was it;
Okay,
maybe I just don't see this. They have this on their statement.
7. The IMAF has established international presence worldwide: Canada, Philippines, United Kingdom, Europe, South America, and Africa.
I don't see UK, S. America & Africa listed any where on their site. No seminars or schools listed.
Am I missing something?
As far as Europe goes there is one school listed in Germany and that is it.
My question still stands. Can anyone answer this either way. If there are schools that will be listed in the next update or people are completing an instructors course then fine. All I'm asking is for some info.
Respectfully,
Datu Tim Hartman
WMAA
P.S. Here is the smile. :asian:
OP
- Thread Starter
- #31
Let me explain something. As the leader of the WMAA it is my job to know what is going on in the Modern Arnis world. Martial Arts is what I do for a living, not a hobby. I've worked 15 years in retail and 8 years in the resturant busness. The thing I learned was that customer service comes first.
I want to give people the best product in the market! To do that I must know what my competition is doing. Here are a few examples.
1. The WMAA was the first to have a written curriculum (This was established back during the Can-Am Chapter days). This makes it easier for our members to train for grading. This is on the net for all to benefit from.
2. We have made an investment in our Black Belt diplomas. The WMAA has invested over $2000 to make our diplomas better than any Modern Arnis one that I have seen.
3. We are the first instructors only camp this October in the Philly area.
These are only a few of the things that we have done. This is probably the reason that the WMAA is the largest Modern Arnis org (determined by number of schools) at this time. My job is to help our members and give them a valued service. This is not a hobby for me, it is what I do. I have devoted ALL my time to martial arts.
Maybe if some of the other groups dedicated more time to it's members they would have larger and better orgs.
Respectfully,
Datu Tim Hartman
WMAA
In fact I think we are fortunate that Mr. McConnell has volunteered to represent the IMAF-Schea group here.
As a Modern Arnis practitioner however I too expected a clearer statement from those apparently appointed by the Professor as to the issues of promotion authority, grandmastership, the Schea-Delaney split, etc. Does the IMAF recognize promotions in rank given by Mr. Hartman, Mr. Anderson, Mr. Worden, etc., for example? This is an aspect of PAUL's question I find to be of great importance.
Surely the WMAA is the most active group as measured by number of seminars camps, number of schools, growth rate, etc.
Periodically I do a quick summary of each organization (US based) and have been posting the results in this forum. I go solely by what is presented on the respective organizations web sites, and try to be as neutral as possible. Quick tally on number of seminars, schools, and camps along with -main- contact info as I can find it. I've also been trying to add in anything that stands out to me about the orgs when I remember. (history, milestones, upcoming events, etc)
I recently completed the quarterly -update- and both IMAFs, along with the WMAA, MARPPIO and WMAC were in the mix.
Search around in here, they should be close to the top if I didn't make em 'sticky' (cant remember at the moment)
:asian:
I recently completed the quarterly -update- and both IMAFs, along with the WMAA, MARPPIO and WMAC were in the mix.
Search around in here, they should be close to the top if I didn't make em 'sticky' (cant remember at the moment)
:asian:
S
stick-i-bunz
Guest
7. The IMAF has established international presence worldwide: Canada, Philippines, United Kingdom, Europe, South America, and Africa
Mr. Hartman,
I guess they don't speak or comprehend the English language very well up there in Buffalo. Does anything in that statement say that the IMAF, Inc. has an affiliated school in these locations? Answer: no it doesn't. Words mean things. And "presence" is not a synonym for "school" in any thesaurus I can find. My Merriam-Webster tells me an acceptable translation would be "bearing," which the IMAF would have estiblished in the above-listed sites simply by the organization having hosted a seminar or conducted students in the location in the past. With the school year starting up, Barnes and Noble is offering a discount on dictionaries, may I suggest you invest in one?
You allege that you don't want to start a flame war, but you and your drone Paul go out of your way to trash any other group. I recall some drama in Michigan a few years back when you gave the Professor back your belt...a year later, you tested publicly for your 6th....Your actions are so contrived, it's like a radio station promotion.
Your whole crew needs to consider what a shameful display they put forth online. From your continual self promotion as the highest tested practitioner, to whining Paul's cries of injustice that nobody in the Presas family called him when the Professor died, it makes me sick.
Sad part is, you actually have some skill at teaching along with a base of knowledge to share. Its a shame your ego is so big that nobody else fits in the room with you to train.
If your people spent as much time training as the rest of the Modern Arnis world, they would have more useful and insightful information to post. Immature actions such as yours will surely not win over arnis practioners who want to do just that- practice! Kudos to those organizations who are concentrating on training and not bickering. From my experience with the Professor, that's what he would have wanted.
ps by the way.... looking at your picture from the awards banquet... may I suggest the Atkins diet, I hear it does worlds for shedding away those unwanted pounds the last few years appears to have put on you.
Mr. Hartman,
I guess they don't speak or comprehend the English language very well up there in Buffalo. Does anything in that statement say that the IMAF, Inc. has an affiliated school in these locations? Answer: no it doesn't. Words mean things. And "presence" is not a synonym for "school" in any thesaurus I can find. My Merriam-Webster tells me an acceptable translation would be "bearing," which the IMAF would have estiblished in the above-listed sites simply by the organization having hosted a seminar or conducted students in the location in the past. With the school year starting up, Barnes and Noble is offering a discount on dictionaries, may I suggest you invest in one?
You allege that you don't want to start a flame war, but you and your drone Paul go out of your way to trash any other group. I recall some drama in Michigan a few years back when you gave the Professor back your belt...a year later, you tested publicly for your 6th....Your actions are so contrived, it's like a radio station promotion.
Your whole crew needs to consider what a shameful display they put forth online. From your continual self promotion as the highest tested practitioner, to whining Paul's cries of injustice that nobody in the Presas family called him when the Professor died, it makes me sick.
Sad part is, you actually have some skill at teaching along with a base of knowledge to share. Its a shame your ego is so big that nobody else fits in the room with you to train.
If your people spent as much time training as the rest of the Modern Arnis world, they would have more useful and insightful information to post. Immature actions such as yours will surely not win over arnis practioners who want to do just that- practice! Kudos to those organizations who are concentrating on training and not bickering. From my experience with the Professor, that's what he would have wanted.
ps by the way.... looking at your picture from the awards banquet... may I suggest the Atkins diet, I hear it does worlds for shedding away those unwanted pounds the last few years appears to have put on you.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #36
Pretty brave hidding behind a screen name. That's okay. Knock yourself out.
Tim,
Remy had said to me many times, right up to the end, "nevermind the barking dog, just do your work" in reference to YOU. I did not do this in the interest of staying neutral and giving YOU the benefit of the doubt. I will no longer do that, and I am done here. You get what you give.
Remy had said to me many times, right up to the end, "nevermind the barking dog, just do your work" in reference to YOU. I did not do this in the interest of staying neutral and giving YOU the benefit of the doubt. I will no longer do that, and I am done here. You get what you give.
With regard to what stick-i-bunz said: "which the IMAF would have estiblished in the above-listed sites simply by the organization having hosted a seminar or conducted students in the location in the past" I agree with completely. The mere fact of a seminar by a member of the organization taking place in those places named equates to a presence in those areas. It does not necessarily mean the existence or establishment of a school.
As to the remainder of stick-i-bunz's post ( I have an educated guess as to who this person is), sadly, I have to agree with. I have noted negative messages coming out from a certain geographical area of the country. No other group has engaged in this kind of negativity. For the most part, I've made a conscious decision not to respond to this and desire to focus more on the advancement of the IMAF, Inc., who I think is a group of very talented and honorable martial artists who are striving to preserve and propagate the art of Modern Arnis in a positive way. Such negativity sullies the memories of Professor Presas.
Sincerely,
Brian Johns
Member, Board of Directors of the IMAF, Inc.
As to the remainder of stick-i-bunz's post ( I have an educated guess as to who this person is), sadly, I have to agree with. I have noted negative messages coming out from a certain geographical area of the country. No other group has engaged in this kind of negativity. For the most part, I've made a conscious decision not to respond to this and desire to focus more on the advancement of the IMAF, Inc., who I think is a group of very talented and honorable martial artists who are striving to preserve and propagate the art of Modern Arnis in a positive way. Such negativity sullies the memories of Professor Presas.
Sincerely,
Brian Johns
Member, Board of Directors of the IMAF, Inc.
Buns, if youre going to come on here and sling insults, step up and have the courage to sign your name. Our tolerence for anonymous trolls has gone -very- low lately.
Thank you Brian for clarifying a point that was asked.
I have to disagree on 1 minor bit... the negativity really comes from everywhere..I've seen a large amount come from 3 locations.
Stick-i-buns is only the latest. In the past I've seen alot of heat from the WNY area, The NE US (washington/oregon) and the South (Texas area). Of course, given that 4 different organizations happen to be headquatered in these locations may be a coincidence.
There are dozens of questions out there about -each- organization. I had several myself about the IMAF-Shea a while back that Dan was happy to answer. I still have several about JD but he never could take the time to answer.
The purpose of this forum is to give all MA orgs a chance to communicate. All members from all these orgs are welcome to sign up and get involved in the mix. Don't like the negativity? Then use this place in a positive way. Kelly Worden, Jeff Delany, all of the Datus, renegades, etc are welcome here. We are the #1 forum for Modern Arnis on the internet. That they do not use it is their and our loss.
..and, before anyone says this is a WMAA forum...every US-based group was directly offered the chance to sponsor this forum..Both IMAFs, MARPPIO and the WMAC. I got silence from 3 and a 'well let ya know' from 1. I put off cashing a check from the WMAA for 4 months in order to allow the other groups a chance. None took me up on the offer. We're open for all of you. I know that over 3000+ emails have been sent out to Arnis practitioners about this forum. Get your members involved and maybe things will be more balanced in the future. I'd personally like to check out every organization as I've heard good things about all of them. I personally believe that everyone of you 'experience' folks can show me something different that will help make be a better MartialArtist.
Brian says he wants to focus on promoting the IMAF. I've seen him post seminar and camp info here, along with summaries. Wheres everyone else from the IMAF? Heck, get 4-5 vocal members on here after every camp, seminar or whatever and you can flood this place with positive IMAF messages in no time.
In the past we've had a lot of personal shots being taken....I think its time y'all started acting like the professionals you all claim to be. Leave the personal shot out of it. Your political issues are yours, I'm staying out of that fray.
Tim and Paul asked several questions. I'll ask a simple one - Will the IMAF be answering them? Or is this thread best locked?
In closing, play nice, please?
Thank you.
Thank you Brian for clarifying a point that was asked.
I have to disagree on 1 minor bit... the negativity really comes from everywhere..I've seen a large amount come from 3 locations.
Stick-i-buns is only the latest. In the past I've seen alot of heat from the WNY area, The NE US (washington/oregon) and the South (Texas area). Of course, given that 4 different organizations happen to be headquatered in these locations may be a coincidence.
There are dozens of questions out there about -each- organization. I had several myself about the IMAF-Shea a while back that Dan was happy to answer. I still have several about JD but he never could take the time to answer.
The purpose of this forum is to give all MA orgs a chance to communicate. All members from all these orgs are welcome to sign up and get involved in the mix. Don't like the negativity? Then use this place in a positive way. Kelly Worden, Jeff Delany, all of the Datus, renegades, etc are welcome here. We are the #1 forum for Modern Arnis on the internet. That they do not use it is their and our loss.
..and, before anyone says this is a WMAA forum...every US-based group was directly offered the chance to sponsor this forum..Both IMAFs, MARPPIO and the WMAC. I got silence from 3 and a 'well let ya know' from 1. I put off cashing a check from the WMAA for 4 months in order to allow the other groups a chance. None took me up on the offer. We're open for all of you. I know that over 3000+ emails have been sent out to Arnis practitioners about this forum. Get your members involved and maybe things will be more balanced in the future. I'd personally like to check out every organization as I've heard good things about all of them. I personally believe that everyone of you 'experience' folks can show me something different that will help make be a better MartialArtist.
Brian says he wants to focus on promoting the IMAF. I've seen him post seminar and camp info here, along with summaries. Wheres everyone else from the IMAF? Heck, get 4-5 vocal members on here after every camp, seminar or whatever and you can flood this place with positive IMAF messages in no time.
In the past we've had a lot of personal shots being taken....I think its time y'all started acting like the professionals you all claim to be. Leave the personal shot out of it. Your political issues are yours, I'm staying out of that fray.
Tim and Paul asked several questions. I'll ask a simple one - Will the IMAF be answering them? Or is this thread best locked?
In closing, play nice, please?
Thank you.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #40
Okay,
lets look at what I wrote.
That reads to me SEMINARS or SCHOOLS. So if we rule out schools it only leaves seminars. Since Remy's death when was the IMAF Schea group active in the UK, S. America & Africa.
I have not seen any activity in those areas in the last year. All I asked was for some verifacation on the statement.
In additon I don't see any announcments of students visiting or going to school in these areas. No activity at all.
For the record I feel the the IMAF had a good idea listing it's accomplishments. Although I feel showed pour taste anouncing them on the anneversary of Remy's death. The WMAA's anneversary is on Nov. 29th. Watch for our press release.
Tim Hartman
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