If you had to choose techniques
- Thread starter DanT
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skribs
Grandmaster
Our hapkido techniques usually start with you already being attacked. If someone grabs my other arm, I can't exactly say "can you grab my right arm? I know how to defend my right arm."
Now, I don't have equal skill with both sides. In a thread in the TKD section I mention how I'm not an ambi-turner. I am better at some things with each hand or each leg. But I practice both sides in effort to close that gap.
I would say that a jab and a cross are two completely different things, as you use different mechanics in your body for each punch. One is simply a quick extension of the arm, while the other requires you to twist your whole body to make the punch work.
I'd say it works out much better that left hand jab, or southpaw stance with a right jab are the same punch.
However, a style that uses a parallel stance where both shoulders are square, a straight punch is a straight punch.
I had a similar argument to this on a gun forum I'm on. Someone said that he carried a gun with 5 rounds day-to-day, but made sure to carry a gun with 15 rounds if he was going to a rough neighborhood. I asked "what does the likelihood about being attacked have to do with how many rounds you'll need if you are attacked."
Similarly, if 70-90% of people are right-handers, then it's safe to assume that 10-30% of the people you might get attacked by are left handed. That's a statistically significant amount of the population for me to want to worry about.
We don't have "left" and "right" handed grabs. We have 4 types of grab - cross-hand (your right to my right or left-left), straight hand (your left to my right, or right-left), and two-hand (either 2-hands on one hand, or one hand on each hand). We usually train one side until we're proficient in it, then we'll work on the other side.
When you have right side forward, if your opponent grabs your right leading arm, or grabs your back left arm, your counter will be different.
skribs
Grandmaster
I don't know if you're trying to argue with me or agree with me.
oftheherd1
Senior Master
I understand and can't fault your logic. However, these techniques mostly serve two functions: Protect against a person who is trying to tie up your sword drawing arm and attacking in some other way, and as a learning device to get a new student used to grappling; how it feels, that it works, and the confidence that brings. There is the consideration that spending time on that may take time away from the training the most likely attacks. Again, that is your choice and if you consider the danger of not doing it outweighs the danger of taking more time, you are making the right choice for yourself.
Sounds good.
Can't argue that.
While your first paragraph makes sense, remember that most people will be trying to deploy their sword with their right hand.
As to your second paragraph, I think as you will progress, you will find all kinds of defenses. Pretty much, Hapkido provides defenses against being touched on any part of you body; being grabbed, punched, or kicked. Also defenses against various weapons. It should come as you progress.
With that in mind:
Punches: Jab, hook
Kicks: Front kick, side kick
Throw: 2 legged-takedown, osoto-gari.
Basically the plan would be if I get in a fight use kicks to keep them away from me so I can run, or use jab to help me shoot in close and throw a hook, or go for a throw. Seems simplest way to ensure I survive with so few techniques.
I'm not sure if I agree with this, but either way if I only get two punches to use, you can bet I'm training them on both sides of my body.It's always a good idea to train different techniques on different sides. For example, you will get better training result if you train
- right hand hold sword.
- left hand hold shield.
Do you want to spend time to train
- left hand hold sword,
- right hand hold shield?
skribs
Grandmaster
Which is why we train for proficiency in one side before training for it in the other. As I said, as a white belt we tended to focus on one side for each technique, but as we've progressed we've expanded on that training to apply it to both sides. We've also expanded our training and have gone from a "technique" being the entire script from being grabbed to reversing the grip to the take down to the finishing move, to "techniques" being the different steps along the way and how to properly chain them together.
Um...I haven't learned any defense against someone deploying a sword. I'm going to refer you back to your point about "consideration that spending time on that may take time away from training the most likely attacks."
oftheherd1
Senior Master
I'm not sure I understand what you mean in the underlined part, but I suspect it is just a description of a different style being taught. At the white belt level, I was taught techniques, many of which concluded with a take down and a dislocation of a joint, and or a strike. All resulted in some type of disabling and/or control of the opponent, so there was not need for chaining techniques together. That said, nothing against learning how an opponent might cause you to not be able to take a technique to its desired conclusion, and what might be an easy next step from that technique to another.
I did not mean after an opponent has already drawn a sword. That will likely come after you have earned your 1st Dan. The wrist techniques, if you think of it, could be used to prevent a person who wants to draw their sword, from doing so, as well as providing building blocks for future techniques.
The main thing is that it sounds like you are having fun on your learning journey, and learning good techniques as well.
skribs
Grandmaster
What I mean by this is technique #1 might be to engage a specific wristlock, then to take the opponent down in a specific way, and then to break the wrist. Technique #2 might be to enage a different wristlock, take the opponent down in a different way, and then break the elbow. As we get more comfortable with the technique, each wrist lock, each take down, and each break are different techniques we can use together, and we can learn how to use them in different combinations.
1) Where are these people with swords of a sudden?
2) You mentioned that training left-hand defenses are a waste of time because only 10-30% of the population is left-handed. What percentage of the time in 2017 are people attacked by swords? Of those, how often do you have a chance to prevent them from drawing their swords?
oftheherd1
Senior Master
That sounds pretty much the way I learned in the Hapkido I studied. I just didn't understand it that way as you described it. Now I do understand.
The mention of swords was me saying the very basic beginning techniques of defending against a wrist grab can also be understood to have been used to defend against someone who might be armed with a sword and the wrist is grabbed to prevent them from being able to take out and use their sword. I didn't say anything about the streets being filled with swordsmen looking for someone to attack.
I didn't say training left-hand defenses were a waste, but I guess I sort of suggested it, didn't I? But I intended it to be for consideration if copying the right hand wrist grab defenses to the left maybe not being an efficient use of training time. Does that make it not a waste of time?
It truly is entirely up to you as it is your training time.With that said I will ignore any consideration of looking for stats on how many people were attacked by swords, and of those, how many I might have had a chance to prevent them from drawing their swords. That to say nothing of the fact that preventing the sword from being drawn is a different defense than protecting oneself from an attack from an already drawn sword.
EDIT: Oh, I meant to add that the answer to your question, "Of those, how often do you have a chance to prevent them from drawing their swords?" the answer would obviously be at least 70%, and maybe up to 90%.
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JR 137
Grandmaster
Punches - straight and hook
Kicks - front and roundhouse
Actually, those are 90% of the punches and kicks I throw so that’s not hard
Throw 1 - Kamikaze double. I can’t find video of it, but basically you bury the top of your head into your opponent’s sternum while you grab behind both knees and pull towards you.
Throw 2 - Lateral throw/drop.
If I could add one more throw, it would easily be the arm spin throw. I use it as an actual throw, whereas a lot of people us it as more of a takedown.
Kicks - front and roundhouse
Actually, those are 90% of the punches and kicks I throw so that’s not hard
Throw 1 - Kamikaze double. I can’t find video of it, but basically you bury the top of your head into your opponent’s sternum while you grab behind both knees and pull towards you.
Throw 2 - Lateral throw/drop.
If I could add one more throw, it would easily be the arm spin throw. I use it as an actual throw, whereas a lot of people us it as more of a takedown.
Martial D
Senior Master
Eye poke and throat chop
Ball kick and another ball kick
Hair pull takedown and twisting ball throw.
skribs
Grandmaster
You might want to take Ameri-Do-Te. Always remember to re-stomp the groin.
Considering the O/P....
For "punches," I'd really rather open it up to just hand strikes, though I like punches too, but I mostly stopped hitting with my knuckles a while back and it's still seeming to work well enough, so straight line, palm strikes mostly, since they convert post-strike so easily into grasping things. And a good, solid, quick jab.
Kicks...thai round kick, and probably front kick. Simple, fast stuff.
Takedowns, most likely osoto-gari, and makikomi variations of same, such as harai makikomi, like that.
But, another category is in there, the stood-up grappling techniques... and the nomenclature will get in the way, but for us it's tenkai kotehenari... which might be the Sankyu line in traditional/Ueshiba naming structures? Not sure. That, and kotegaeshi, though just to lock stuff up, not to actually tthrow. Better if you can just cause them to crumble, for me personally.
For "punches," I'd really rather open it up to just hand strikes, though I like punches too, but I mostly stopped hitting with my knuckles a while back and it's still seeming to work well enough, so straight line, palm strikes mostly, since they convert post-strike so easily into grasping things. And a good, solid, quick jab.
Kicks...thai round kick, and probably front kick. Simple, fast stuff.
Takedowns, most likely osoto-gari, and makikomi variations of same, such as harai makikomi, like that.
But, another category is in there, the stood-up grappling techniques... and the nomenclature will get in the way, but for us it's tenkai kotehenari... which might be the Sankyu line in traditional/Ueshiba naming structures? Not sure. That, and kotegaeshi, though just to lock stuff up, not to actually tthrow. Better if you can just cause them to crumble, for me personally.
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