Icelanders - The New Al Qaeda

[Makalakumu]

http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/news/975952/you-cant-a-fjord-not-pay-britain-tells-iceland/

As far as the UK was concerned, it was a done deal. A bill to repay UK and Dutch governments for bailing out Icesave account holders was approved by Iceland’s parliament in December, so all it needed was the rubber-stamp from President Olafur Grimsson. But after a quarter of Iceland’s population signed a petition in protest, the President has decided to veto the bill (only the second time he’s ever done this) and put it to a referendum instead.

Yeah, I'd be pissed off too! Imagine, a private company puts the equivalent of the country's GDP on a roulette wheel and loses. Now the owners of these international banks are trying to push the bill on the taxpayers. Hmmm, that sounds familiar.

Take Britain’s use of anti-terrorism law to freeze Iceland’s assets back in 2008, which bracketed the country with the likes of al-Qaeda. Not very neighbourly – and Icelanders think this contributed to the banks’ demise (hence the UK should share some of the pain).

WTF!!!!!!!!!

Remember those guys who were saying that this legislation would only ever get used against the bad guys? Well, this pretty much crams a crow down your throat. Enjoy!

Icelanders - the new Al Qaeda - FTL...

But however much sympathy we may have for the plight of individual Icelanders, the fact remains that if Iceland wants to avoid becoming an international pariah, it needs to start paying its debts.

And

Predictably, the British Government isn't at all happy. The Treasury’s city minister Lord Myners warned the Icelandic people not to vote against the bill in the referendum, suggesting that it could further tarnish Iceland’s reputation abroad and possibly freeze the country out of the EU. ‘The Icelandic people, if they took that decision, would effectively be saying that Iceland doesn’t want to be part of the international financial system,’ he growled.

Look, people, the plight of the Icelandic people should give the world a lesson on the extent these banksters are willing to go. If they can do this here, they can do this to any country.

 

[Tez3]

The money wasn't to bail out the Icelanders it was to protect British investments in the Icelandic banks. One in five councils had invested money in Icelandic banks instead of using it for what it should have been used for- the tax payers whose money it actually was instead they used it to invest in the Icelandic banks who went bust because of the sub prime rubbish that was going on.
The Aduit Commission which is the spending watchdog has found seven councils acted negligently by investing a total of more than £30m in Icelandic banks after it was known they were heading for trouble, one of them only four days before the bank went into receivership.

 

[Makalakumu]

The issue here is that the global financial structure is completely ignoring the sovereignty of a country and putting citizens on the hook for the actions of a private corporation. They are using so-called anti terrorism laws to do this.

 

[Tez3]

The issue here is that the global financial structure is completely ignoring the sovereignty of a country and putting citizens on the hook for the actions of a private corporation. They are using so-called anti terrorism laws to do this.

As some of that is MY council tax money from my hard earned pay, I don't actually care about the other bits. It's an academic subject for you to discuss, it's not for me, that's my money in there.
Iceland is a marvellous country and it's people who I admire immensely should do whats best for them. I hope they do whatever is right for them and in the meantime I'm demanding explanations as to why my money has been 'lost' when it should be used for the benefit of me and the rest of the people in my area especially as the council has run out of money to grit and salt roads in the appalling bad weather we are having. we are unable to get out of where we live and people are dying while the councillors whinge about lack of funds.

 

[Makalakumu]

As some of that is MY council tax money from my hard earned pay, I don't actually care about the other bits. It's an academic subject for you to discuss, it's not for me, that's my money in there.
Iceland is a marvellous country and it's people who I admire immensely should do whats best for them. I hope they do whatever is right for them and in the meantime I'm demanding explanations as to why my money has been 'lost' when it should be used for the benefit of me and the rest of the people in my area especially as the council has run out of money to grit and salt roads in the appalling bad weather we are having. we are unable to get out of where we live and people are dying while the councillors whinge about lack of funds.

We are actually in the same boat. People in the US have lost up to 75% of the value of their investments for retirement because of schemes like this. We should be asking what happened and hold the people responsible who caused all of this.

Instead of that, what we have here is a case where international banks are putting citizens in other countries on the hook for their bad investments. This article describes what is the equivalent of racketeering. Look at the various kinds of threats being used to get Icelanders to raise taxes and cover the losses of private banks.

I think this sets a new precedent for tyranny. We are seeing how the international finance oligarchs will deal with countries in the future.

 

[celtic_crippler]

So.... basically...

What I'm hearing here is that, regardless of country... it's the lowly tax-payer that's getting screwed...

... and who benefitted again? It doesn't seem like the citizenry of either country are benefiting... so... who does that leave?

Uh-hum.... anyone see a trend here.... Elite & the little guy, Proletariat & the Bourgeoisie...

 

[MA-Caver]

I think I have the gist of what is going on and I feel sorry for a country that hasn't caused ANYBODY ANY trouble ANYWHERE. In fact it's one of those places I'd like to visit someday before I die.
Thing is I am more miffed at the fact that these people are being equated with a bunch of moronic radical terrorist organization than a people getting bent over the fence by a shifty banking scheme.
Unless I missed something somewhere I don't recall Iceland being supportive of any terrorist organizations by any means. Why Bush would freeze their assets smells a lot like the ONE WORLD BANK scheme that's been in motion for a long *** time. Just knocking away a tiny little country for starters.

I'm sorry for those people their world is cold enough without some greedy banker/investor making it all the more colder.

 

[Archangel M]

Why Bush would freeze their assets smells a lot like the ONE WORLD BANK scheme that's been in motion for a long *** time. Just knocking away a tiny little country for starters.

I don't think Bush is involved in this.

 

[Sukerkin]

Don't kid yourself.

 

[Archangel M]

Don't kid yourself.

I mean the Iceland UK story.

 

[Tez3]

Our people invested in the Icelandic banks and they in turn invested in American ones who were the ones who caused the problem, sub prime markets etc etc. slightly simplified of course but thats where it started.

No one here as equated Iceland with terrorists at all.

 

[Makalakumu]

Our people invested in the Icelandic banks and they in turn invested in American ones who were the ones who caused the problem, sub prime markets etc etc. slightly simplified of course but thats where it started.

No one here as equated Iceland with terrorists at all.

Well, yeah, they kind of did when they used anti-terrorism laws to freeze, uh I mean steal, Icelanders' bank accounts. Look, the average British citizen is not responsible for the actions of its government. You guys, like us, are being controlled by an out of control group of international finance oligarchs who think they can do anything they want.

American banks, British banks, Icelandic Banks, there is no country label that fits to these organizations because their ownership knows no allegiance to country. It is multinational. The bottom line is that the world's banking system caused this crisis to steal our money. Now they are using a particular country's laws (Britain) to steal some more.

An international private corporations made bets that went bad and they are stealing from others in order to cover those bets.

 

[Tez3]

Well, actually the money was seized under the "2001 Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act." It isn't a purely anti terrorist act. There is suspected crime involved in the Icelandic bank problem, its suspected there was a fraud being carried out so this is precisely the correct act to sieze the money under.
As always things aren't as it seems, no one is calling the Icelandic people terrorists but there is some dodgy dealing going on. Laws here are laws, they are also meant for general use and just because they are titled as being "X" doesn't mean they can only be used for "X" crimes.


"An Act to amend the Terrorism Act 2000; to make further provision about terrorism and security; to provide for the freezing of assets; to make provision about immigration and asylum; to amend or extend the criminal law and powers for preventing crime and enforcing that law; to make provision about the control of pathogens and toxins; to provide for the retention of communications data; to provide for implementation of Title VI of the Treaty on European Union; and for connected purposes.
[14th December 2001]
Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same,"

 

[MA-Caver]

Well calling them "The New Al Qaeda" doesn't help the mental image/idea. It's insulting I think...

 

[Tez3]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/sep/11/iceland-banks-fraud-uk

Fraud isn't a crime I know much about so I suspect that while they may charge and convict those guilty, people won't be any closer to getting their money back.
I agree calling the Icelandic people the new Al Queda is inappropriate, when saying that the money was seized under terrosim law people should have looked at the full title of the Act not just the terror bit.

 

[Makalakumu]

Riddle me this. How is the average Iceland citizen responsible for the actions of a private bank? How is any citizen for that matter?

IMO, there is no connection between then two.

The use of one nations laws to freeze the assets of citizens in a foreign country for the actions for the actions of a private bank sets a dangerous precedent. If they can do it in Iceland, they can do it anywhere. Anybodies assets anywhere could be seized by another country for any reason.

The fact that the laws in question are "anti-terrorism" laws is only a matter of marketing. The laws had nothing to do with terrorism, IMO. They are designed to break down sovereignty and transfer power to a group of international finance oligarchs. Terrorism is just an excuse and that's why governments create and manage the threats.

Essentially, it sets up a Casino-Gulag society where the top elite can make whatever kinds of bets they wish and the rest of us are going to be stuck in the gulag on the hook for any losses.

 

[Tez3]

You haven't read throught the 'terrorist' law have you?

The money seized by the British was money deposited in British banks by the Icelandic banks, I don't know why it was in there but it was. I don't understand your comments about seizing money in foreign countries. I don't actually understand most of your post.

The law used is one which allows the British government, after furnishing sufficient proof, to seize money held in British banks by illegal organisations. This is money used to fund criminal, and after all terrorism is a criminal offence, acts and dealings. The money seized doesn't go to any other cpountry or even to any other bank, just into the Bank of England until such time as it's decided by Judges where it belongs either back to the original owner or it goes to the Crown ie our country.

 

[Makalakumu]

You haven't read throught the 'terrorist' law have you?

The money seized by the British was money deposited in British banks by the Icelandic banks, I don't know why it was in there but it was. I don't understand your comments about seizing money in foreign countries. I don't actually understand most of your post.

The law used is one which allows the British government, after furnishing sufficient proof, to seize money held in British banks by illegal organisations. This is money used to fund criminal, and after all terrorism is a criminal offence, acts and dealings. The money seized doesn't go to any other cpountry or even to any other bank, just into the Bank of England until such time as it's decided by Judges where it belongs either back to the original owner or it goes to the Crown ie our country.

The key to understanding what I'm saying is realizing that the "Icelandic Banks" aren't investing "their" money into Britain. They are investing other people's deposits. These people had nothing to do with the actions of the bank, therefore freezing those assets and doing anything with them, amounts to theft.

I know what the law says and I know "why" it was passed. My point is that the law gives the banksters unprecedented power in the name of terrorism. Without terrorism, none of this would have happened. This is a classic bait and switch, IMO.

Furthermore, the international finance oligarchs aren't stopping there. They are pressuring Iceland, with all sorts of threats, to "bailout" the Icelandic banks by raising taxes and transferring their wealth to cover the bad investments. The Icelandic people got this stopped and now the banksters are threatening to cast the country out of the "international community" unless they vote for this bailout and give the banksters even more money. If they can do that in Iceland, they can do it anywhere.

Therefore, we have two issues here. Issue number one is that Britain's Anti-terrorism Laws are being used the steal innocent Icelandic citizens deposits. The second issue is that the "international community" is applying all kinds of pressure in order to scare Icelandic citizens into voting for a bailout for these private interests.

What this amounts to is an unprecedented level of international corruption. If this can happen, nobodies assets are safe. Does that make sense?

 

[Tez3]

I'm not sure that all that is happening to Iceland you know. It's a country that got itself into huge debt, privatising everthing and borrowing an enormous amount of money. It's not just a case of the Icelandic people putting their saving into a bank and losing it because a bank was 'careless' or negligent, the whole country is in debt throught the actions of it's government, it was fine while things went well but of course it went bust eventually and the people are now paying the price of having a right wing government, they may never have been rich under a socialist government but they were never in the situation they find themselves now.
The British and Dutch governments bailed out the Icelandic banks as there was no money for the Icelandic government to do it.
I think you need to look at the whole situation not just the last little bit. I think you need to look too at what right wing politics will take you into.

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/01/07/bbc-newsnight-interview-with-the-icelandic-president/

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/iceland-britain.26t




http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/iceland-britain.26t

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm not sure that all that is happening to Iceland you know. It's a country that got itself into huge debt, privatising everthing and borrowing an enormous amount of money. It's not just a case of the Icelandic people putting their saving into a bank and losing it because a bank was 'careless' or negligent, the whole country is in debt throught the actions of it's government, it was fine while things went well but of course it went bust eventually and the people are now paying the price of having a right wing government, they may never have been rich under a socialist government but they were never in the situation they find themselves now.

The British and Dutch governments bailed out the Icelandic banks as there was no money for the Icelandic government to do it.

I think you need to look at the whole situation not just the last little bit. I think you need to look too at what right wing politics will take you into.

Thanks Tez3, I appreciate the discussion. I find it interesting that all of this is being blamed on "neoliberalism" rather then what I see as the root of the matter. In Iceland, Britain, the United States, almost every industrialized country, we have a banking system that has colluded with the government to form financial monopolies and control information via media ownership. This is actually the exact opposite of neoliberalism...the equivalent of saying War is Peace. This couldn't have come about without a lack of understanding of the international banking system and carefully crafted propaganda.

You should support the Icelandic people, Tez3, because they are the first country to really stand up against these financial oligarchs. If they vote this down, the banksters are going to be held accountable for their decisions and one group of people will refuse to put on the hook for the actions of a private business. That is the heart of the matter, IMO.

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/01/07/bbc-newsnight-interview-with-the-icelandic-president/

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/iceland-britain.26t

The President of Iceland is being really shrewd in the interview. He knows the British media is nothing but a tool of the banks and he is basically telling the people of Britain if the people of Iceland decide we are not obligated to bailout Icesave for its bad decisions, we are not going to do that. British and Dutch savers are going to have to find the people who are really responsible for the losses. To do that, you guys (and in the end, all of us) are going to have to pull back the curtain on international finance and realize that all of the banks are interconnected. They are all dangling on shadowy strings being pulled at the Bank of International Settlements.

You want to find your money, you need to look there and stop being pawns in a game that amounts to high-tech theft. We all need to realize that if they can do this to Iceland, they can do it to anyone.

The second article is interesting. It would seem that the Spanish people are beginning to wake up also. We'll see about that. From what I've read, Spain has really been hit hard by the international financial malfeasance. They could be the next country to stand up and refuse to be manipulated.