Chen Style Basics Series -- Zuǒyòu chājiǎo (left and right rub with heel)
- Thread starter Appledog
- Start date
What's the difference between Taiji kick and non-Taiji kick?This kind of practice can help you improve your Tai Chi Kicks!
The reason that I ask because I train both Taiji kick and long fist kick. When I kick, I truly don't know whether I'm doing Taiji kick or long fist kick.
- Thread Starter
- #3
Great Question. I am not 100% sure what exactly your style of longfist does but in our school we have "six kicks". It is a line kicking practice which includes:
1. Front stretch kick
2. Outside Kick
3. Inside Kick
4. Front Slap Kick (I call them "Zombie" kicks because you hold your arms out in this one, although in some schools I have seen them hold the arms out to the sides like in 1, 2 and 3)
5. Side stretch Kick
6. Back kicks (like a throw).
This is similar to "front slap kick" more or less, except front slap kick is performed walking straight ahead and this is more turned to the side. In front slap kick, the focus is on agility in the sense of proper stepping, such as keeping the legs and arms straight, not wobbling, not popping up onto the toes (or moving the bottom heel), executing the kick at a certain height, and other technical requirements.
However in the tai chi version, we are concerned with winding up and down the momentum. So we kneel down a bit or rotate inwards and down, then push up from the bottom leg to assist the kick. So it uses power from the opposite leg to rise up. Secondly, after the kick we don't place the foot next to the standing foot, we step forward directly into a cross stance. The idea is to not stop moving -- to move at a constant, smooth pace, and thusly to follow the Tai Chi principles.
Another interesting difference is that when you are finished the line kicking, you have to step off the line and return to the start to allow the next person to go. In contrast, I've put a transition move in here to turn around and repeat another 5-10 kicks. This way you can perform a larger number of kicks at one time. I would say this way is intended for solo practice or small groups, whereas the longfist style of walking in a line seems more useful for larger classes so the teacher can quickly evaluate students in the group.
Last edited:
Honest question from someone who has never practiced tai chi or any CMA. The kicks in the video- where does the power come from? I can see the pushing up off the non kicking leg adding power. These kicks are different from karate, I'd like to understand more.
- Thread Starter
- #5
I've never really thought about it. The leg is a strong muscle; in general I think it just comes from the leg. The following video is 90% of it:
windwalker099
Black Belt
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2022
- Messages
- 568
- Reaction score
- 234
IME, the method is different, just as the method of kicking in CMA is different from Karate.
While Taiji movement shares many similarities with its origin CMA styles, as expected, the mechanics are not the same,
being based on different theories for power delivery.
If one feels there is no "difference," and it's an important point, they might want to examine how they perform the movements.
If not, a kick is a kick, a punch is a punch.
There are differences between CMA kicking, Karate, and the derivative styles of Karate in general.
One of the posters here might be able to explain it more in depth.
"Same Trick "
Last edited:
A recent karate lesson helping to improve your kicks thru whole body movement.I created this line practice because I like this move, and wanted to practice it many times each day.
This kind of practice can help you improve your Tai Chi Kicks!
- Thread Starter
- #9
Cool marvin! Great video! It's always fun to see the different approaches used. But let's take a closer look. In it's current form, there are two main problems with integrating the Karate kick into Tai Chi. One, it is practiced using a target and the weight is thrown into the target. This means there is no smooth follow-up that can be performed, such as immediately kicking again while employing smooth and even movement -- a major requirement of Tai Chi. However, we know from the soccer analogy at 2:10 the intention behind the kick. If we remove the target, he demonstrates what the kick will be modified to look like (at 3:30). This is our first clue. The move suddenly looks a LOT like "Tornado Kick" in Chen Tai Chi:
While a completely different kick, isn't it fascinating to find such a link between Karate and Tai Chi? Fun!
That Wushu video is not front kick. The "front stretch kick" is
- locking your knee, and
- swing your leg over your head.
The Taiji front kick has bending knee. Here is an example.
Here is long fist front kick. I truly can't tell any difference.
Last edited:
You still have not mentioned what the difference is.
Here is my question. How do you explain to a Karate/TKD guy that Taiji front kick is different from a Karate/TKD front kick?
This is exactly what I was wondering about. So the stretch kick is just that- a warm up/stretching exercise, not for fighting correct? Does the tai chi front kick use spring of the kicking foot ankle to initiate/launch the kick?
windwalker099
Black Belt
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2022
- Messages
- 568
- Reaction score
- 234
why not start with something more basic...
Are CMA kicking methods the same as Karate/TKD ?
Maybe some practitioners of karate or TKD can respond from their perspective ?
BTW had people tell me my kicking method was not taiji..
took awhile for me to figure what they where talking about
make changes as needed
In the clips used as examples..
Might wanna ask yourself why one is slowed
down and the other is at normal speed ?
Last edited:
All front kick requires raise knee up before kicking out. To me, a kick is just a kick. It has no MA style label. It's just a fighting tool in your toolbox.
When you kick on a heavy bag, how many people can tell whether they are kicking with Karate kick, TKD kick, long fist kick, or Taiji kick?
Is this guy doing Karate kick, TKD kick, long fist kick, or Taiji kick?
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2015
- Messages
- 14,678
- Reaction score
- 6,335
The first kick reminds me of a similar kick from a Jow Ga form. It's like a front kick but the kick is done from a side stance. If you look at the kick below you can see how the hips open that it's not the common front kick. I use both of these kicks in sparring. There's a big difference in the kicks. Both are extremly useful. Both will hurt. But there is a difference in the power and the mobility option. The front kick that most are used to seeing would be good to kick down a door. This kick is not that kick. This kick is better from transitioning into another strike.I created this line practice because I like this move, and wanted to practice it many times each day.
This kind of practice can help you improve your Tai Chi Kicks!
Same kick from the form. Note how the knee of the standing leg points outward. Unlike the commo front the side kick lets you choose between landing a kick vertically or horizontally without changing the stance of the standing leg. For me this is the easier front kick for me to do.
Last edited:
windwalker099
Black Belt
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2022
- Messages
- 568
- Reaction score
- 234
Do you feel there is a difference in the Thai kicking style from other styles ?
I ask you a question. Instead of answering my question, you come back with 2 more questions.why not start with something more basic...
Are CMA kicking methods the same as Karate/TKD ?
I only ask because the fellow I've been training under stresses sharply flexing the ankle of the kicking foot to launch the front kick as opposed to lifting the knee to launch the kick. When the foot leaves the ground the toes are pointed down as the ankle flex causes the heel to sharply raise up first.
No! I don't feel any difference. I like MT roundhouse kick better than the TKD roundhouse kick because the MT roundhouse kick meet the requirement of "body push/pull limbs".
I wish you had a video of this kick. Wondering if it's the same one I picked up somewhere along the line. Not exactly a front kick, comes upward at an angle. Great for hitting the ribs with the tip of the foot. Almost like a front kick that wants to be a roundhouse lol. Can't remember what it's called
