Humility

[Captain Harlock]

Humility?

What place does humility have in the maturation of a martial artist?

I often see this word "Humility" listed as a desired trait or goal for an actively training martial artist to aspire to. The reality on these forums seems to indicate a growing failing in modern training to develop this desired trait however.

The dictionary definition “1. The state or quality of being humble; freedom from pride and arrogance; lowliness of mind; a modest estimate of one's own worth; a sense of one's own unworthiness through imperfection and sinfulness; self-abasement; humbleness.” seems to be sorely lacking in the discussions of many high ranks.

Why is this?

Surely, men and women with the decades of focused training, meditation and experience could have reached this level. The old masters did. Is this a growing problem world wide, or just an American problem?

I have seen supposed traditionally trained and respected martial artists engaged in activities unfitting martial artists of their stature. I have seen petty bickering over the increasing of rank levels for dead masters, simply so that they themselves can add additional stripes to their belts. I have seen childish bickering over the words of a dead man, who only wanted his art to flourish after his passing, and the resultant chaos as ego and posturing destroyed friendships, relationships, lives and organizations.

Why?

Have we forgotten the lessons of our teachers so soon?

Nasakenai.

 

[Kingston]

Originally posted by Captain Harlock
Humility?

What place does humility have in the maturation of a martial artist?

I often see this word "Humility" listed as a desired trait or goal for an actively training martial artist to aspire to. The reality on these forums seems to indicate a growing failing in modern training to develop this desired trait however.

The dictionary definition “1. The state or quality of being humble; freedom from pride and arrogance; lowliness of mind; a modest estimate of one's own worth; a sense of one's own unworthiness through imperfection and sinfulness; self-abasement; humbleness.” seems to be sorely lacking in the discussions of many high ranks.

Why is this?

Surely, men and women with the decades of focused training, meditation and experience could have reached this level. The old masters did. Is this a growing problem world wide, or just an American problem?

I have seen supposed traditionally trained and respected martial artists engaged in activities unfitting martial artists of their stature. I have seen petty bickering over the increasing of rank levels for dead masters, simply so that they themselves can add additional stripes to their belts. I have seen childish bickering over the words of a dead man, who only wanted his art to flourish after his passing, and the resultant chaos as ego and posturing destroyed friendships, relationships, lives and organizations.

Why?

Have we forgotten the lessons of our teachers so soon?

Nasakenai.

......a couple things first off....who says people with high ranks are masters?.....(i dont like ranks anyway)

one thing it didn't mention in the definition was ego....having a modest sence of self worth is great, but after 30 years of MA trianing even a modest view (as far as worth to the martial arts comunity) is a pretty flatering one.

now....if your worth as a martial artist is questioned your ego (wich EVERYONE has no matter what they say to limiting degree)
tells you to defend yourself.....defend your self worth, defend perhaps what you consider your well being. Is this not our right as human beings?

(ego is another topic entirely....but it is what makes us care about our appearance, our "success", ambition, drive, in some cases perhaps our "self worth", if you dont agree please play along for this post)

Now, after the initial defence has been laid it is very hard to ignor concurrent attacks, the alarm is on, battlestations ready. This is not necessarily wrong, though it can be if someone over-reacts, is very sensitive, already emotional....and yes has no humilty.

If a person attacks you, physicaly or psychologicaly, as martial artists, it is our job to defend ourselves, the reason we train.

Im sure there are things close to your heart that if i insulted repeatedly, you, like everyone else, depending on the seriousness of the attack, would get upset, wheather we act on it or not is not the issue, the fact is, thats our ego working us....even if you dont respond, you still feel it. If someone responds that is their perogative, and not our place to judge.

Now i know this is (at least partly) in response to those ARK fellows getting all worked up over little o'll Rich.

But remember now, rich was insulting ARKs credibility, his livelyhood, his lifes work, perhaps influencing other people, who in turn could cause ARK more harm.

The actions of ARK in that case where a little much, his emotions got a hold of him....we are after all, only human....

My final word is, you shouldn't judge people by your own standards, because not everyone is like "you", not everyone is perfect, people make mistakes. The most important thing about making mistakes is, its how people learn!

who are you to judge anyone else? where is your humility....why where you offended by ARKs post?.......is the anger i sence in your post a reflection of your mood or was it unintentional?

Humility is great, and yes a "true" master should have it.....but not everyone is a master.....But we are all human.

 

[Captain Harlock]

It is all, and it is none.

It is a conclusion I have reached after reading many sections of not only this talk forum, but of others.

I read the new magazine from this site, the article "Legacies" in particular stood out to me. The followers of Lee have argued and fought for years, as have the followers of Parker over everything and nothing. I see the same with the followers of Presas. As more of the old masters leave us, it seems that they take the humility with them.

I hold no anger towards these 'warriors of words'. In fact, I pity them, for they have missed one of the oldest and deepest lessons found within all of the arts.

After the ego has perished,
the true self rises from its dust

"Ego" is often used to describe the tendency to inflate your self-image, and it is often linked to greed. It is not just to be ambitious, but to be "overambitious". It implies that you love yourself so much that you would try to realize your ambitions to the detriment of others.

To serve your ego is
to worship a false identity
created by yourself.
It is like someone suffering from amnesia
reinventing herself because
she has forgotten
who she is.

Ego and humility are too often, mutually exclusive. Too often I see people who are supposed learned martial artists, arguing over such minutia that one questions if they ever truly listened with their hearts.

They have lost the way. Or, perhaps they never truly had it?

Zan’nen

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Interesting read.

:asian:

 

[Wmarden]

Humilty is not necessarily knowing the value of yourself, it is knowing the value of others. It is not that you are great or awful, but that others are as worthy as you.

From a Christian perspective it is also knowing that Jesus died for all of us, even the ******* who just cut you off on the freeway.

 

[bdparsons]

"Humility is the one thing that you lose as soon as you realize you have it."

You can't "try" to be humble. It happens on its own, usually brought about when a person is more concerned with others than themselves.

As far as the individuals profiled in the "legacies" portion of the new Martial Talk e-zine... I cannot speak to GM Presas, but in my opinion Bruce Lee and Ed Parker were not what I would consider to be humble individuals. I don't say this in a derogatory manner whatsoever, just as an observaton.

To the individual who asked whether we have lost the intent of our predecessors when humility isn't present... I would posulate that many (not all) people you see nowadays behaving badly are merely reflecting the attitude they observe in their own instructors.

Respects,
Bill Parsons

 

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

I am a EPAK student and I have seen all the arguing between the ranking seniors and I have come to realize this. Who am I to pass judgment or any of the seniors that came before me and all I can do is do my best to take care of my my grass in my yard.

However, I am in search of my warrior spirit ( great book by the way)and I am doing my best to be a "DRAGON" and keepping my "TIGER" hidden until it is absolutely nessary. I wish that more ma schools were honestly interested in developing not only a students skills but there character as well.

Personal grow this a beautiful thing but then agian sometime there is to much yackin and not enough smakin!

 

[Shadow Hunter]

How can someone be humble and full of humility when we are surrounded by so many stupid, inept people in the martial arts?

Honestly, I chose my current base of operations mainly for the fact that there is no martial arts schools near me. I don't have to run across the local McDojo or it's students as I do my shopping.

I go out to local schools as I travel around the world doing my buisiness, and most times it is hard to keep myself under control and politely leave at the end of the lesson rather than grab the idiot teaching the class and beat the hell out of him. Or start laughing and heckling the guy as he teaches the worst sort of bunk. On a few occasions, I have not been able to keep quiet and had to teach some "Master" that he is not as good as he thought he was. In every case that has happened, not one of the guys who I beat up actually learned from the experience. They all came up with some excuse as to why I pounded on them so easily. In some cases, they changed the story so that it was they who were the victor of the fight. (But boy is it fun running across those guys in their class again .)

At the same times, in the back streets and secluded corners of the world I have run across people who have shown me that I do have areas where I need to improve on. In most cases, these holes in my art can not be exploited because so few people are able to realize them for what they are. But there are people who can, and those are the people I travel to learn from.

I guess you can say that humility is a benifit when it allows you to still learn things. I know a lot of people who give lip service to the idea of always being able to learn from others, but they just go through the motions and never open their minds to anything that threatens their viewpoint of themselves and their abilities.

 

[stickarts]

I remember that one of the first things that Wally Jay said at a seminar was that we are all equals, that each of us had things that we were better at than him, he just was better at his locks than us because he had been doing it for so long! (thats for sure, LOTS better!:0) )
To me, that was a fine example of humility!

 

[twinkletoes]

Humility is getting on the mat or into the ring with your students every day. It is not making excuses when they get the better of you. And some days, they will!

Anything less is the ego talking.

~TT