How would a high level Tai Chi martial artist do against a high level MMA?

[drop bear]

Kung fu wang's post was full of nonsense. Tez got it right.

Nope.

 

[mograph]

You did notice all the quotations? So when he says "sports format" it is designed to be read in a fairly liberal context.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Link: Purdue OWL Quotation Marks

 

[Flying Crane]

Nope.

Care to explain what part Kung fu wang got right?

 

[K-man]

Push hands as an exercise is no different to kakie in Goju or 'trapping' if you want to look that up. It is not designed for continuous fighting, it is something to train sensitivity and balance that you might use for a fraction of a second in a real fight. To consider it grappling makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

 

[drop bear]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Link: Purdue OWL Quotation Marks

Different use of quotations. Language evolves.

 

[Steve]

It's perfectly fine to use a quotation mark to indicate words that are used with some reservation, as was done in this thread. And how might I know this? Why, I read it on the link below the link provided, ip under their header, "extended rules for quotation marks."

Once again demonstrating that it's always a good idea to read the entire reference when you're trying to be a smart alec.

 

[drop bear]

Care to explain what part Kung fu wang got right?

The bit where you need to test against resisting guys and test against other systems. In an environment where you can fail and grow from the experience.

That way when there is a method of attack that represents kryptonite to your superman you can recognize that and fix it.
Look it is nice for the ego to be Capitan awesome in your own head or in your own school. But if you never take your martial arts out of the box and use it it will never grow into something special.

Or is there a reason you cant do taiji and be able to defend leg takedowns?

 

[drop bear]

Push hands as an exercise is no different to kakie in Goju or 'trapping' if you want to look that up. It is not designed for continuous fighting, it is something to train sensitivity and balance that you might use for a fraction of a second in a real fight. To consider it grappling makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

Have we just watched like 10 videos of it being used continuously and apparently effectively.

That is untill it didn't work and then it is not the real push hands.

 

[K-man]

Have we just watched like 10 videos of it being used continuously and apparently effectively.

That is untill it didn't work and then it is not the real push hands.

Not at all. Perhaps you could explain the martial application of what you saw in those 10 videos, perhaps in the environment of a pub altercation.

 

[drop bear]

Not at all. Perhaps you could explain the martial application of what you saw in those 10 videos, perhaps in the environment of a pub altercation.

I don't know the clip with the wrestler where he knocks the guy back 10 feet on to his ***. Seems pretty applicable.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So where and how you are going to test it if you don't use the "sport" format?

Just to be clear, the "sport" format is a method that you can still have someone who is willing to spar with you. If you just kill every single sparring partner that you can find, pretty soon, nobody will spar with you.

 

[drop bear]

Just to be clear, the "sport" format is a method that you can still have someone who is willing to spar with you. If you just kill every single sparring partner that you can find, pretty soon, nobody will spar with you.

Honestly that did come across in your other post.

 

[K-man]

I don't know the clip with the wrestler where he knocks the guy back 10 feet on to his ***. Seems pretty applicable.

Perhaps I should have asked you to repost the clip that you think provides a technique that we could train to use the next time we are attacked by a thug in the street, or better still one that you think would stand up against a trained fighter in an MMA bout.

 

[Hanzou]

Have we just watched like 10 videos of it being used continuously and apparently effectively.

That is untill it didn't work and then it is not the real push hands.

You noticed that too?

Funny how that happens.

 

[Hanzou]

Care to explain what part Kung fu wang got right?

He got it right when he said the best way to test something outside of walking the streets and beating people down, or dojo storming and beating fellow martial artists down is in a sportive environment.

Chen and Garcia were messing around in a sportive environment. Ideas were exchanged, and both parties came out as friends.

That Bjj white belt who smashed that Taiji practicioner did so in a sportive environment. The only more realistic alternative to that is the Bjj guy going to the Taiji guy's house and beating the crap out of him.

 

[K-man]

You noticed that too?

Funny how that happens.

I'm not talking about 'real' push hands and whether it works or not. I am asking what you think is its place in the martial arts.

 

[drop bear]

Perhaps I should have asked you to repost the clip that you think provides a technique that we could train to use the next time we are attacked by a thug in the street, or better still one that you think would stand up against a trained fighter in an MMA bout.

Then I would post the clip of the tai chi (taiji?) guy manhandling a wrestler. Or hanging with Marcello.

 

[Hanzou]

I'm not talking about 'real' push hands and whether it works or not. I am asking what you think is its place in the martial arts.

I think Tuishou could evolve into a grappling method (and possibly its own martial art), that rivals Judo, Aikido, and Greco-Roman wrestling once it fixes it's leg grabbing issue.

And honestly it can do that by simply incorporating leg takedown defenses from other grappling forms.

Real push hands can continue being a practice set for Tai chi.

 

[mograph]

It's perfectly fine to use a quotation mark to indicate words that are used with some reservation, as was done in this thread. And how might I know this? Why, I read it on the link below the link provided, ip under their header, "extended rules for quotation marks."

Once again demonstrating that it's always a good idea to read the entire reference when you're trying to be a smart alec.

I see. I was commenting on Drop Bear's specific interpretation of quotes as being the usage of terms "in a fairly liberal context." To me at least, "with reservation" is not the same as "in a fairly liberal context," which was not allowed for in the OWL link. The former refers to the relative inapplicability of the terms in quotes (where "sport" etc. might not apply, or only be applied with reservation, or in a limited context) to the discussion; while the latter would describe a broad application of the quoted terms to multiple contexts (where "sport" would apply to multiple environments).
In the former, "sport" applies narrowly if at all; while in the latter, "sport" applies broadly.

Sophistry? Perhaps. I was reacting to DB's sarcasm ("did you see the quotation marks?") and felt my own need to respond to what I saw as a smart alec(k). But in the end, I'll concede the point to you, lest we diverge too much.

 

[Steve]

I see. I was commenting on Drop Bear's specific interpretation of quotes as being the usage of terms "in a fairly liberal context." To me at least, "with reservation" is not the same as "in a fairly liberal context," which was not allowed for in the OWL link. The former refers to the relative inapplicability of the terms in quotes (where "sport" etc. might not apply, or only be applied with reservation, or in a limited context) to the discussion; while the latter would describe a broad application of the quoted terms to multiple contexts (where "sport" would apply to multiple environments).
In the former, "sport" applies narrowly if at all; while in the latter, "sport" applies broadly.

Sophistry? Perhaps. I was reacting to DB's sarcasm ("did you see the quotation marks?") and felt my own need to respond to what I saw as a smart alec(k). But in the end, I'll concede the point to you, lest we diverge too much.

We could all stand to lighten up. Me included.