How to escape a wrist lock

[JowGaWolf]

That assumes they are grabbing and essentially pushing away. I’m having trouble coming up with many situations where that would be the case. Can you help me understand this?

I can think of scenarios of when someone grabs your hands like that. Usually it's only for a quick second. They do it to get arm control so they can position your arms as an entry. So grabbing the arms isn't the end technique. It's the entry technique.

The trouble is that I have to react to an entry technique before it's applied. If I react to it after it's applied then my reaction will the wrong for the follow up. Here's the pattern.

My Opponent: Step 1: Entry - He grabs my arms. Step 2: Moves to different technique
Me: Step 1: He grabbed my arm Step 2: I react to Step 1.

The problem is that by the time my opponent gets to Step 2: I'm reacting to his Entry which is no longer there and as a result that technique won't work. Kung Fu has a lot of techniques about what if someone grabs your arm. What they don't say is none of that stuff works if they still aren't holding on. However, the techniques speak to this reality because many techniques try to lock their opponent's grab so that their opponent can't let go in time.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Everyone talks of moving this way and that way...Tai sabaki in a Dojo is one thing but some people are just physically strong and have a good grip.
Try all the sabaki on a construction worker with real World strength in his hands and forearms.
Not so easy.

I've been grab by wrestlers before and my thoughts are always the same thing. I'm not getting away if he grabs me. This informs me that some techniques have to be done before the grip is locked. I also learn that when they grab with purpose to control your arm, if they are successful then any technique that I have in mind to control them probably won't work. I have to first stop their control or stop the entry. I don't always get to choose what I have to use to stop the control.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I can think of scenarios of when someone grabs your hands like that. Usually it's only for a quick second.

I will say the grabbing time can be less than 1/4 second.

In the following clip, when A grabs on B, B won't be able to punch A with his free hand (because the angle).

 

[JowGaWolf]

I will say the grabbing time can be less than 1/4 second.

In the following clip, when A grabs on B, B won't be able to punch A with his free hand (because the angle).

View attachment 27501

If a wrestler / grappler is holding me for longer than what is shown in your clip, then I'm probably at the beginning of a bad situation lol.

 

[wckf92]

Please help me to understand this:

- A stands on B's N.
- Both have right sides forward.
- A uses right arm to pull B's right arm to the W.
- B moves toward NW.

Since A is at N, A will be exactly on B's blind sport (side door), how can B's left hand be able to punch A? What have I missed here?

Most of the time, when A pulls B, A will borrow the counter force to move A to the NE. So when B moves to NW while A is at NW, that will be exactly 90 degree different.

In the following clip, when A pulls B, B's back hand will have difficulty to punch A (because the angle).

Again, what have I missed here?

View attachment 27500

Simple, the guy in black has no footwork. He doesn't understand WC methods. Look at his right foot, he simply leaves it there for the guy in white to take advantage of.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Everyone talks of moving this way and that way...Tai sabaki in a Dojo is one thing but some people are just physically strong and have a good grip.
Try all the sabaki on a construction worker with real World strength in his hands and forearms.
Not so easy.

One of my favorite training partners was a mover. He was (and is) a few inches shorter than me, with hands about 25% broader with muscle - like hams, they were (and still are - saw him recently). Having someone like that to work with reveals some truths.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

OK, training in a Chinese martial art, I also had to look up "tai sabaki" - a Japanese term. For the other practitioner of non-Japanese arts, it seems to roughly translate to "outside shift" or moving offline, and in arts like Aikido is used to "harmonize" rather than resist an opponent's force.

OK that kinda-sorta relates to the "WT" Wing Chun response to a hard grab and yank across center intending to turn you so that the free arm can't come into play as posited by John Wang in his post #20 above. We respond by stepping forward and across with the pulling force, stepping with the leg on the same side as we are being pulled using "falling leaf step.

This:
1. Moves us closer (inside) and across (offline) and...
2. Relieves the pressure of the pull so that you are not spun around and continue to face your opponent's center so you can hit them straight away with the free-hand.

Note: The timing, reflexes to accomplish this step require a good deal of practice, but when you do it right it is not negated by a strong grip and hard pull by a "construction worker with real-world strength". Heck those are precisely the people in your group that you want to train with!

BTW- a nod here to Bill Mattocks who, it seems to me, already said pretty much the same thing (from a karate perspective) above.

I learned the term as an equivalent to “body movement”, as opposed to limb-only movement. Under that definition, the post that started this sub-thread is confusing to me. The point of tai sabaki in grappling is to use big (leg and trunk) muscles instead of just arms, especially against a stronger person. Not doing tai sabaki (again, as I learned the term) means limiting yourself to arm strength.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The point of tai sabaki in grappling is to use big (leg and trunk) muscles instead of just arms,

Agree! Here is an example that you use your whole body to drag (not only use your arms to drag).

 

[geezer]

Agree! Here is an example that you use your whole body to drag (not only use your arms to drag).

This clip is titled "the Wang drag"... ...er, that is unfortunate.

John, I know you speak English very well, but I do not believe it is your first language. If you learned English as an adult at UT, There may be certain idiomatic expressions commonly used in childhood that you missed. Just sayin'

 

[geezer]

Please help me to understand this: what have I missed here?

View attachment 27500

In a word: Footwork.

First, let me say that an arm drag to get a leg pick as shown is a great technique, and I have used it on my WC students. So I'm not saying that won't work.

...but I am saying that it is practical to counter a sharp wrist pull by by using the force and stepping with the pulling movement.

The difference is footwork ....and context.

Here are some points about context:

For one thing, in WC our upper body isn't bladed or turned aside. It's typically square to our opponent.

Secondly, in the scenario we were discussing, when white pulls black to his right (as above) his intent is to punch, so he won't be crouching and setting up a single-leg. That would lead to a different counter by black.

Now, regarding footwork:

To borrow the force of the wrist pull, black would have to:

1. Relax and allow his right arm to be pulled across to the left, stretching like a bungee cord.
2. Channel the pulling force to his feet and relieve the stress by stepping deeply over and inward with his left foot.
3. Use the force of white's pull to accelerate his body to his left while keeping his shoulders facing his opponent.
4. This allows black to spring back facing white and punch.

Note : In your videoclip, You, in white, are applying something very like this footwork in setting up your takedown! Imaging that, instead of resisting, black responded to your arm-drag by moving in the same way.

BTW: I've never posted a video, but I really wish I had one to clarify. Sometimes words ...just fail me.

 

[futsaowingchun]

What if your opponent won't let go his grips?

Also to break apart a wrist lock is one thing. To take advantage on it is something else. How to take advantage on it?

In another thread, someone asked, "What's your finish move?"

"What's your finish move?" Take out my gun and shoot him..lol

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To borrow the force of the wrist pull, black would have to:

1. Relax and allow his right arm to be pulled across to the left, stretching like a bungee cord.
2. Channel the pulling force to his feet and relieve the stress by stepping deeply over and inward with his left foot.
3. Use the force of white's pull to accelerate his body to his left while keeping his shoulders facing his opponent.
4. This allows black to spring back facing white and punch.

I believe you are talking

- A pulls B.
- B borrows A's pulling force,
- steps forward with left leg,
- spin toward right to face A (so B's left hand can punch A).

Since B "yielding" intention can be transferred through the arm grabbing (this is the main purpose of the arm grabbing), A can borrow B's body spinning, spin with B, and leady B into the emptiness.

Double "borrow force" has happen here.

- A pulls B.
- B borrows A's pulling force and spins.
- A borrows B's spinning force, and spin more than B really wants to.

I believe this is what we are talking about. Since A spins with B (by moving right leg behind left leg in a circle), B's left hand still cannot reach A.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

"What's your finish move?" Take out my gun and shoot him..lol

Just try to understand your purpose why do you want to "fling your opponent away".

 

[drop bear]

I will say the grabbing time can be less than 1/4 second.

In the following clip, when A grabs on B, B won't be able to punch A with his free hand (because the angle).

View attachment 27501

You are giving up your back with a lot of these wrist release options.

 

[drop bear]

Just try to understand your purpose why do you want to "fling your opponent away".

If it worked at all like that original video it would be a useful trick. You just throw them over a gutter or something.

 

[futsaowingchun]

That assumes they are grabbing and essentially pushing away. I’m having trouble coming up with many situations where that would be the case. Can you help me understand this?

How about a drunk In a bar.. I used to security..

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You are giving up your back with a lot of these wrist release options.

Don't understand your comment. Could you provide more detail?

Are you talking about this clip?

 

[drop bear]

Don't understand your comment. Could you provide more detail?

As you swing your arm side ways they can just go past the whole side of your body.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

As you swing your arm side ways they can just go past the whole side of your body.

Are you talking about this clip?

 

[caped crusader]

anyway Guys n ´Gals the bottom line is every situation is different so until it happens..who knows