How to develop your MA techniques?

[Kung Fu Wang]

Okay, that reads very differently. So, you're talking about taking away the directly competing skills. You couldn't use a different single-leg or a double-leg or a hip throw. But you could still clinch, lock, and (assuming the format allows) use strikes.

For wrestling art, I have used the following rule set to force my students to use "one technique only".

Within 3 minutes, if you can get your opponent into a "single leg", you don't have to take him down, you win that round. The wrestling stop there and start all over again. If you use any other technique to take your opponent down, it won't count and the match continue. During the match, your opponent may use any technique as he wishes.

For striking art, I have used the following rule set to force my students to use "one technique only".

Within 3 minutes, if you can put your palm on your opponent throat (If you can put hand on your opponent's throat, you can land your fist on his face), you win that round. The round stop there and start all over again. If you use any other technique, it won't count and the match continue. During the match, your opponent may also use any technique as he wishes.

 

[jobo]

All my examples are "You attack first". What if your opponent attacks first? When your opponent attacks you, he is doing the footwork for you. It should make your original plan simpler. But the discussion of this thread is still "You attack first and create opportunity for yourself".

it makes little difference who throws the first blow, unless you knock him out with it. The result will be a counter attack, that you then have to deal with

to be honest, if you are fighting someone in the same,style as yourself, you maybe,able to predict his counter attack with a reasonable degree of accuracy, less so if its someone schooled in another art or no art at all

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

if you are fighting someone in the same,style as yourself, you maybe,able to predict his counter attack with a reasonable degree of accuracy, less so if its someone schooled in another art or no art at all

I also don't believe to test MA skill in your own style is a good idea.

This is why I have encouraged all my students to test their skill in local MMA gym. Sometime half of my class is to discuss the problem that they have experienced in their MMA gym and I'm trying to help them to find solutions.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I also don't believe to test MA skill in your own style is a good idea.

I totally agree with this in terms of application and understanding. If I was in a belted system students would have to have 2 test. The first test is knowing the technique. The second test would be applying the technique outside of the context of the system that is trained. That second system would require to use those skills against someone outside of the school. An MMA gym would be a good selection since they do a wide variety of things, where I can limit the rules based on the testing (punch only, strike only, grappling only, punch and grappling). The MMA guys would be able to handle that fairly easy and the students will be able to actually test their skills. I want to do this with the school I'm at now, but since I'm not in charge of the school I would need to get that cleared on multiple levels. Good ole CMA red tape.

Sometime half of my class is to discuss the problem that they have experienced in their MMA gym and I'm trying to help them to find solutions.

I like this as well. Just based on what I've seen from other TMA practitioners. It doesn't seem that much discussion goes on because so many make the same big mistakes when going against MMA.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

if you are fighting someone in the same,style as yourself, you maybe,able to predict his counter attack with a reasonable degree of accuracy, less so if its someone schooled in another art or no art at all

If I grab your wrist. Since it's easier for you to twist your arm to against my thumb (1 finger) than to twist your arm against my other 4 fingers, I can predict how you may break my grip even if you and I may train different MA systems.

If I kick at your groin, I can predict you to

- drop your arm to block my kick,
- raise your leg to jam my kick,
- step back or to the side to let me kick into the thin air,
- interrupt my kick with your kick,
- ...

even if you and I may train different MA systems.

 

[jobo]

If I grab your wrist. Since it's easier for you to twist your arm to against my thumb (1 finger) than to twist your arm against my other 4 fingers, I can predict how you may break my grip even if you and I may train different MA systems.

If I kick at your groin, I can predict you to

- drop your arm to block my kick,
- raise your leg to jam my kick,
- step back or to the side to let me kick into the thin air,
- interrupt my kick with your kick,
- ...

even if you and I may train different MA systems.

but if you grabbed my wrist, id head butt you, didn't see that coming did you?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

but if you grabbed my wrist, id head butt you, didn't see that coming did you?

An arm drag, your opponent can move behind your body.

 

[jobo]

An arm drag, your opponent can move behind your body.

your moving the goal post, you said grab my wrist, not an arm drag, but even then you still have to drag faster than i can head butt, and im I'm quite fast

 

[JowGaWolf]

but if you grabbed my wrist, id head butt you, didn't see that coming did you?

If you grab someone's wrist with the intent to lock it, then the head but actually becomes very difficult to do. For me personally, if I grab your wrist then the next destination will be one of these, wrist pain, punch or palm to the face, off balanced, fall. Either one of these uses a technique that would prevent a person from having the structure that's needed to head butt.

Grabbing a wrist just for the sake of holding is dangerous.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

even then you still have to drag faster than i can head butt, and im I'm quite fast

1st, head butt is always 2 ways street.

2nd, your head butt will make his head lock much easier.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I totally agree with this in terms of application and understanding. If I was in a belted system students would have to have 2 test. The first test is knowing the technique. The second test would be applying the technique outside of the context of the system that is trained. That second system would require to use those skills against someone outside of the school. An MMA gym would be a good selection since they do a wide variety of things, where I can limit the rules based on the testing (punch only, strike only, grappling only, punch and grappling). The MMA guys would be able to handle that fairly easy and the students will be able to actually test their skills. I want to do this with the school I'm at now, but since I'm not in charge of the school I would need to get that cleared on multiple levels. Good ole CMA red tape.


I like this as well. Just based on what I've seen from other TMA practitioners. It doesn't seem that much discussion goes on because so many make the same big mistakes when going against MMA.

How would you use this as a test? It seems you'd end up with highly variable results, depending upon who they drew. One guy draws an MMA guy who is primarily a striker, and the next guy gets a BJJ blackbelt. Very different tests for those two.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If I grab your wrist. Since it's easier for you to twist your arm to against my thumb (1 finger) than to twist your arm against my other 4 fingers, I can predict how you may break my grip even if you and I may train different MA systems.

If I kick at your groin, I can predict you to

- drop your arm to block my kick,
- raise your leg to jam my kick,
- step back or to the side to let me kick into the thin air,
- interrupt my kick with your kick,
- ...

even if you and I may train different MA systems.

Except you didn't predict - you listed several possibilities. Which one do you expect?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Grabbing a wrist just for the sake of holding is dangerous.

Many years ago, a friend of mine said, "If I just keep moving back, none of your technique will work on me." I have always believed that

I can use a

- kick to set up a punch.
- punch to set up a throw,
- throw to set up a ground game.

His comment had bothered me for a long time. I then realized that there is something missing in my strategy.

I should use a

- kick to set up a punch.
- punch to set up a clinch,
- clinch to set up a throw,
- throw to set up a ground game.

A simple wrist grab is just the beginning of a "clinch". A wrist grab is like you put a hook on your opponent's body. When he moves back, he will pull your body with him.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Except you didn't predict - you listed several possibilities. Which one do you expect?

It's like a computer program, I should have counters ready for all your responses. Otherwise, my computer program is not complete. The less chance that I have to use my "default", the better that my MA skill is.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's like a computer program, I should have counters ready for all your responses. Otherwise, my computer program is not complete. The less chance that I have to use my "default", the better that my MA skill is.

Agreed. I was just pointing out that knowing the list of likely responses (and how to counter them) isn't the same as predicting what he will do.

 

[JR 137]

I'm only talking about 1-1 situation here (either in the ring or on the mat). I mainly talk about "finish technique" that you can end a fight right there.

For example, a simple

- hay-maker to knock on the back of your opponent's head, or
- single leg that you can switch striking game into grappling game.

I'm pretty sure the guy who quoted your post earlier meant a lot of different people individually, not "multiple opponents" attacking together.

 

[jobo]

1st, head butt is always 2 ways street.

2nd, your head butt will make his head lock much easier.

but you didn't predicts a head but in your list of possible outcome to your wrist grab, you didn't predict a knees on the groin or a finger in the eye ether, your just predicting what you have been trained to do in that situation and that was my point

 

[JowGaWolf]

How would you use this as a test? It seems you'd end up with highly variable results, depending upon who they drew. One guy draws an MMA guy who is primarily a striker, and the next guy gets a BJJ blackbelt. Very different tests for those two.

You can set the rules for striking only, grappling only, stand up only, all of the above. Beyond that I wouldn't care if someone is a BJJ blackbelt or not. The testing wouldn't be based on "winning." If the student winds then great. I'm more concern about a student being able to read the opponent, read the situation, picking the "best fit" technique to deal with what the opponent does. I can use your same question of " what if the guy is a BJJ blackbelt?" and apply it to a street situation. What if the student gets into a physical conflict with a guy who he doesn't know is a BJJ blackbelt? The one thing I never do personally when I spar is ask my opponent's skill level. As a martial artist that trains for the purpose of being able to physical use the stuff I train. It's important that I'm able to determine that on my own, by the way the guy moves or position himself. I need to be understand what I'm facing, so that's something I would like for my students to be able to do.

If I was going to grade a student it will be on things such as ability to use techniques, read the situation, read the appoint, and exploit the opponent, and defend against the opponent. If I see that the student is constantly getting surprised by the opponent then I wouldn't be happy. This stuff would be unacceptable for any student who I would consider being on an intermediate level. Some of it would be unacceptable for a beginner level and I'm basing this on the students I've trained and how I corrected them on similar things, for example, that bouncing, hands down, reaching low to block kicks, not dealing with the lead hand, reaching to block vs. bringing the arms towards our own head to protect our heads, These are things that I currently teach get on my beginners and I lecture the intermediate students about for doing.

I expect my intermediate students to have a good read of what is front of them. They should be able to recognize where the real opportunities are and the mistakes that their opponents are making. At the intermediate level they should be analyzing and working out possible solutions. In sparring, winning isn't a big deal nor focus for me, because if a person can't do any of the things I stated then they won't win any way regardless of how well they perform kata or kung fu forms. They won't win regardless of how many Karate or Kung Fu people they fight.

The chances that any of us is going to get into a street fight with someone who does the same fighting system that we train is almost a 0% chance. This why I believe students have to have those good analytic skills and understanding that they are facing. MMA students are the best way to test that because they are so random from student to student and they fight more like people in the street than they do TMA students do in the school or at competitions. Just keep in mind that for me it's not about winning. There are other more important foundations that students need to have so that they will have a chance to win.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The chances that any of us is going to get into a street fight with someone who does the same fighting system that we train is almost a 0% chance.

If someone tries to use "single leg" on me in the street, I may stop fight right there, take him to a bar, and buy him a beer.

 

[FighterTwister]

I expect my intermediate students to have a good read of what is front of them. They should be able to recognize where the real opportunities are and the mistakes that their opponents are making.

On point, I agree with you here!

This does not happen much its hard to do as you need good skills and an attitude of knowing self!

Fighters vs Artist kind of thinking if you get the meaning.

To critique the Black belt he is already in trouble the moment he starts he is not parrying and moving aside to avoid a straight blast of punches, he was distracted by jumping around approaching the center.

This is disappointing really to watch as to who to blame well he would know best.

But its on youtube for people to analyze and its not a neat fight really poor performance.

The MMA had more finesse and control than a Black Belt and I have seen this proven many times attending martial art comps and demos.

You gota be on top of your game in other words.