How simple do we keep it?

[Nyrotic]

2 Things:

First
When I asked my Sifu about combat strategies in Wing Chun, his most recurring phrases in his explanation were to "keep it simple" and "stick to the principles". I understand the flexibility and versatility of Wing Chun relies on avoiding set techniques and creating them on-the-fly through it's concepts, but how simple can we treat it before it becomes TOO general? I'm having difficulty explaining exactly what I'm trying to say, but basically; how do we train application (ie. certain drills or sparring) without falling into the mindset of using technique A against situation B? ESPECIALLY if they arise out of instinct in the first place, how do we avoid using the same movement over and over in a fight (Including training)? Also, what are some things that I can do to practice actual fighting using Wing Chun considering I have nobody to practice Chi Sau with? I was thinking I could just have a partner (Not WC practicioner) throw simple punches at me and I could practice applying oh say Tan Sau with increasing speed, intent, and resistance as I improve. And what does one MEAN when a Sifu says to "go with the flow" and "be in the moment" of a fight?

Second
Does anyone have a list of all the Sau's and what each one is generally used for? I know it's probably a very extensive list, but I feel that it would be a great help to have one on hand (Considering I DON'T).

Thanks!
Nyro

 

[mook jong man]

Your sifu is right you should keep it simple . One of my instructors told me that when i am facing some one i should think of going right through them like a laser beam almost as if they aren't there.

how do we avoid using the same movement over and over in a fight (Including training)?

Don't worry about that , under the stress of a real fight you will revert back to very simple techniques eg. chain punching and low kicks , this happens even to the most experienced people .

One of my instructors who trained for about 20 years got attacked on an escalator by an aggressive drunk ,did he use some fancy trapping ? no , what about a bil gee move ? no . He simply thrust kicked him in the chest and knocked him back down the escalator .

I'm not going to write out every deflection and what it is used for because the possibilities are endless and the way some schools use tan sau , fook sau and bong sau are different .

But the way untrained people attack is pretty much universal , usually it starts with a circular punch to the head usually right handed , doesn't mean your not ready for a left hand , but most people a

 

[paulus]

Also, what are some things that I can do to practice actual fighting using Wing Chun considering I have nobody to practice Chi Sau with? I was thinking I could just have a partner (Not WC practicioner) throw simple punches at me and I could practice applying oh say Tan Sau with increasing speed, intent, and resistance as I improve.

I face the same problem - nobody to chi sau with. What I do is improvise with non martial artist people. I can do a very silly looking chi sau with my non wing chun girlfriend. This is very soft and of course she doesn't know how to punch etc. But it's good for improving my tactile awareness.

Somebody else I've done makeshift chi sau with was a guy who was quite strong. Whilst he didn't throw any punches, I found this useful to try and redirect his energy when he pushed/pulled/grabbed my hands etc. In a way this was more useful than training with a potentially compliant partner. Again, I'm just treating him like a body whose movements I'm trying to sense and use.

One little drill that he coped with quite well was the cliched pak-punch (me) which he pak'd. Swapping over was no problem either. Not very advanced, but it stopped me getting twitchy at the thought of a spare pair of hands just lying there and going to waste.

 

[KamonGuy2]

2 Things:

First
When I asked my Sifu about combat strategies in Wing Chun, his most recurring phrases in his explanation were to "keep it simple" and "stick to the principles". I understand the flexibility and versatility of Wing Chun relies on avoiding set techniques and creating them on-the-fly through it's concepts, but how simple can we treat it before it becomes TOO general? I'm having difficulty explaining exactly what I'm trying to say, but basically; how do we train application (ie. certain drills or sparring) without falling into the mindset of using technique A against situation B? ESPECIALLY if they arise out of instinct in the first place, how do we avoid using the same movement over and over in a fight (Including training)? Also, what are some things that I can do to practice actual fighting using Wing Chun considering I have nobody to practice Chi Sau with? I was thinking I could just have a partner (Not WC practicioner) throw simple punches at me and I could practice applying oh say Tan Sau with increasing speed, intent, and resistance as I improve. And what does one MEAN when a Sifu says to "go with the flow" and "be in the moment" of a fight?

Second
Does anyone have a list of all the Sau's and what each one is generally used for? I know it's probably a very extensive list, but I feel that it would be a great help to have one on hand (Considering I DON'T).

Thanks!
Nyro

First - not sure what you are saying, sorry
Second - if you type into google wing chun list terms, you should find a rough list of movements in wing chun
Good luck

 

[mook jong man]

Sorry , i mucked up something with my earlier post only half of it came out , but heres the rest of it for those that are interested . I was saying that most untrained people will usually start off with a circular punch to the head if they are right handed , but you should also be ready for a left as well , its just that most people are right handed .

This is the sort of stuff i think you should be working on.
pak sau and punch against a random boxing type guard , make sure your partner holds his arm up very strong , so you have to pak sau correctly to get through , its also useful against a straight punch.

You can do this four corner deflection drill , countering punches to the head and stomach , the punches to the head are circular and the ones to the gut are like an uppercut to the stomach .

Get your partner to put on arm pads and throw the punches slowly in this sequence LEFT HIGH ,RIGHT HIGH , LEFT LOW , RIGHT LOW . You use whatever deflections you have learned for these attacks , we use dai sau for the head punches and chit sau for the low ones .

After you have gone for a couple of rounds with the above sequence , reverse it , and after that do different patterns , say LEFT HIGH , LEFT LOW , RIGHT HIGH , RIGHT LOW and go diagonal as well . After you can counter these attacks at a reasonable speed have your partner now throw the strikes at random and with varied timeing .

Now we use the same method as above to deal with straight punches to the head and gut , to clarify straight punch i mean one coming right down your centerline (fist horizontal ) and for the straight punch to the gut i mean ( fist horizontal , back of the hand facing up ).

You use whatever deflections you have learned and are comfortable with for these attacks , we use tan sau on the outside of their arm ( pinky side of tan sau ) for the head attacks and tor sau for the low attacks .

Have your partner start off slowly punching in this pattern , LEFT STRAIGHT HIGH , RIGHT STRAIGHT HI , LEFT STRAIGHT LOW , RIGHT STRAIGHT LOW . Just use the same patterns as the earlier drill , it goes without saying that you should also be using a counter strike with your deflections .

After you can do this drill at speed , with fluidity and stop random straight punches then you mix the drills together and you have what is known as six corner deflection, again use the various patterns and then do it random .

High and low backfists can also be added to the mix and this becomes eight corner deflection . If you practice these drills diligently you will build up tremendous reflexes and when a strike comes in , your hand will automatically be there to meet it without you even thinking about it , your arms become a shield . You won't have to think about any thing except hitting the person in front of you as hard as you can .

If you only have your wife or girlfriend to train with you can do what one of my mates did when he couldn't train at the school .

He tried to get his girlfriend to throw punches at him but she complained that the deflections hurt her arms ( as good deflections do ). So what he did was get two big empty plastic coca cola bottles and got her to attack him with them .

She could attack him as hard as she liked while hitting with the bottles without getting her arms hurt and he got to work on his reflexes .It might not be the optimum way to train but it will keep your reflexes sharp until you can get back to the school and do some real training .

 

[matsu]

thanks mook. i will see if my reg partner will go thru this with me.
always great help
kudos!!:angel:

matsu

 

[mook jong man]

Glad you liked it , this type of training using high repetition and varied patterns came from our Adelaide academy in South Australia .
It was well known in the Sydney academy that a person from the Adelaide school would be equal in skill to a Sydney student that was even two grades senior to them .

I think this skill discrepancy was due to these high repetition / varied patterns method that they trained in . They certainly kicked our arses whenever they came over to visit , and after the aforementioned **** kicking we would pick their brains to learn their drills ( usually at the local pub after we got them nice and drunk ) .

Also the same principle can be applied to developing reflex for arm grab counters and defences to kicks , anything really , just remember the formula HIGH REPETITION , VARIED PATTERNS , VARIED TIMEING and then RANDOM.