How real is MMA?

[INDYFIGHTER]

Lately I've been reading the same quote over and over from alot of different people saying that MMA is the most realistic fighting sport ever. "The closest thing to the street."

I don't believe that's completely true. All kinds of things happen on the street. Recently I personally had to choke the driver of a van while standing on the running board of a moving vehical. I seen one punch fights where the only guy who ever laid on his back was the guy who got knocked out. I've never seen anyones face get ground into a fence although I'm sure it does happen, occasionally.

I'm not knocking MMA. Just like most sports I feel it has it's place and it's athletes. I'm just not buying this idea that it's the most realistic. I've never once ever seen anyone throw a leg kick in a street fight! And I've never seen anyone go for a side mount on the sidewalk.

 

[mrhnau]

Well, its probably the safest thing you can get. You can't exactly hand out broken bottles or live knives in a "sport" and expect the stars to live very long. Nor can you simulate every possible aspect of a non-scripted fight.

Is it perfect? Sure its not, but IMHO its one of the better options

 

[Andrew Green]

Lately I've been reading the same quote over and over from alot of different people saying that MMA is the most realistic fighting sport ever. "The closest thing to the street."

I don't believe that's completely true.

Name a more realistic unarmed combat sport.

 

[Tez3]

Name a more realistic unarmed combat sport.

Drinking in Newcastle on a Saturday night? or Cardiff, dear me there's a place for a fight!

 

[Freestyler777]

I am so glad someone else questioned the validity of MMA. I agree with you, Indyfighter. MMA is one of many combat sports. "Completeness" is not a requisite skill for self-defense. Efficacy is. And punching with the hands is the most important skill, as well as balance, endurance, and a cool nerve. You should also have some grappling skill to avoid being on bottom in the event of a groundfight. I don't believe in kicks, the guard, or most takedowns. And I train in BJJ! I happen to love no-gi grappling, which has tremendous SD value, but I realize that there is no sport that is reality, so I will quote Bart Vale, founder of Shootfighting in America: "I never went to the ground in a real fight; I guess I hit them before they hit me." Simple wisdom.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

MMA like any other art or style can be real effective, or utter crap. It really depends on how your train, what you train, and who you train with.

Most MMA folks train in a more casual "gym" style in comfortable workout gear, rather than the often very strict style with special uniforms of the traditional arts.

MMA tends to omit the techniques that don't fit into much of todays society (ie sword disarms, fancy spinning kicks, and the like.) while focusing more on the basics needed to dominate in a one on one fight. Many schools use a grappling core as their foundation.

Some people train for the "UFC" type fights, which is to say for sport fighting, with it's rules, and controlled conditions. Others train in an anything goes lets see what works here and what doesn't work here way, which is more geared towards street defense.

Basically, if you're looking for sport fighting, it's one of the best.
If you're looking for street defense, check out the place before hand as it can be very effective.
If you're looking for a combat art, look elsewhere.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Name a more realistic unarmed combat sport.

Wing Chun, Karate, Gung Fu, Arnis, Savate, Kenpo, Kempo, Systema..........You just have to train under someone legit, not someone who got their belt from a box of cracker jax.

 

[Andrew Green]

Wing Chun, Karate, Gung Fu, Arnis, Savate, Kenpo, Kempo, Systema..........You just have to train under someone legit, not someone who got their belt from a box of cracker jax.

But as people keep telling me, those are not sports

The claim is: "MMA is the most realistic fighting sport ever."

So I'd like to know what a more realistic sport is, and what the rules and criteria for winning are.

 

[Freestyler777]

You have a point, Andrew.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

But as people keep telling me, those are not sports

The claim is: "MMA is the most realistic fighting sport ever."

So I'd like to know what a more realistic sport is, and what the rules and criteria for winning are.

Old school ECW, with the tables, and chairs, and "international objects", and fire, and 10 on 1 gang ups.

Just remove the ring, the ropes, the ref and the script.

(*Says the dummy who has taken unprotected shots to the head with a kendo sword, a folding chair and a vcr - don't ask*)

 

[Bob Hubbard]

But, seriously, MMA probably is the closest to a real fight you can get under controlled circumstances today in a sporting environment. The key is to remember those last 2 words, "sporting environment". They don't allow broken bottles and tire irons in the UFC. Street fights....well....they're different. lol.

 

[tellner]

Drinking in Newcastle on a Saturday night? or Cardiff, dear me there's a place for a fight!

Please. We're talking about sports here, not committed lifestyles

 

[tellner]

But as people keep telling me, those are not sports

The claim is: "MMA is the most realistic fighting sport ever."

So I'd like to know what a more realistic sport is, and what the rules and criteria for winning are.

Unarmed it's pretty darned good. The Dog Brothers and WEKAF do a pretty good job with weapons.

I was thinking that MMA in street clothes would be interesting. Then I realized it would be more dangerous. There'd be a lot of broken digits from clothing. And getting kicked with a shod foot would be much worse than bare.

Of course, the debate isn't new. The ancient Greeks argued about whether the Pankration was "real" - the participants ended up wrestling on the ground rather than standing up the way they'd have to in battle.

 

[rutherford]

The claim is: "MMA is the most realistic fighting sport ever."

So I'd like to know what a more realistic sport is, and what the rules and criteria for winning are.

Well, some people claim that the fighting sports which limit the time on the ground are more realistic. I believe the arguement is that when you have to jump for a sub rather than set them up positionally, it's more like how groundfighting should be employed in a street or combat situation.

But, I highly question the value of the claim. It could both be the most realistic and still be worlds different.

 

[bujuts]

I think its safe to say that its second to none for a sterilized environment. A sterilized environment is one in which there are a few rules, no dangerous unknowns, no obstacles (a cage fence is not an obstacle), no threat of multiple assailants, the ever handy liability waiver, plenty of time, no weapons, medical attention within 15 seconds, and matted floors. MMA training is always hard and against a resisting partner - a must for developing fighting ability.

"Effectiveness" means many things. Its not a great for most sixty year olds, largely because its approach is focused on ending a fight with KO's and submissions, an approach requring, obviously, strength and stamina. Its not a great idea for smaller framed women dealing with a would-be rapist. Its not great at dealing with multiple assailants. And in and of itself its not great at handling or dealing with weapons.

With all that said, the MMA'er still stands a better chance in a street altercation than most, if for no other reason they're conditioned, athletic, and are used to full contact training. Academic martial artists, as many may be referred to, will bash MMA for its lack of principles and emphasize the fact that the cage isn't real. Well, it isn't...but it is. Its REAL tiring, REAL hard, and REAL demanding. There are lessons all can gain from it, I in particular take the training methods to heart when I train, though I don't specifically train under a MMA school.

Good topic, look forward to more.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKF

 

[jks9199]

But as people keep telling me, those are not sports

The claim is: "MMA is the most realistic fighting sport ever."

So I'd like to know what a more realistic sport is, and what the rules and criteria for winning are.

Paintball or some other firearm/Simunition/Airsoft type game?

The reality of modern combat/self defense here in the US is that a lot of bad guys have guns. And most people aren't interested in a fair, one-on-one fight.

 

[bujuts]

I think its safe to say that its second to none for a sterilized environment. A sterilized environment is one in which there are a few rules, no dangerous unknowns, no obstacles (a cage fence is not an obstacle), no threat of multiple assailants, plenty of time, no weapons, medical attention within 15 seconds, and matted floors. MMA training is always hard and against a resisting partner - a must for developing fighting ability.

"Effectiveness" means many things. Its not a great for most sixty year olds, largely because its approach is focused on ending a fight with KO's and submissions, an approach requring, obviously, strength and stamina. Its not a great idea for smaller framed women dealing with a would-be rapist. Its not great at dealing with multiple assailants.

With all that said, the MMA'er stands a better chance in a street altercation than most, if for no other reason they're conditioned, athletic, and are used to full contact training. Academic martial artists, as many may be referred to, will bash MMA for its lack of principles and emphasize the fact that the cage isn't real. Well...it isn't, but it is. Its REAL tiring, REAL hard, and REAL demanding. There are lessons all can gain from it, I in particular take the training methods to heart when I train, though I don't specifically train under a MMA school.

Good topic, look forward to more.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKF

 

[jks9199]

"Effectiveness" means many things. Its not a great for most sixty year olds, largely because its approach is focused on ending a fight with KO's and submissions, an approach requring, obviously, strength and stamina. Its not a great idea for smaller framed women dealing with a would-be rapist. Its not great at dealing with multiple assailants.

One other thing...

Submissions suck for ending a REAL fight. You're tied up with one person, and in many submissions in a way that you can't defend against someone else, and what are you going to do if you let him go & he decides to fight again?

Unless your job is to restrain someone, and you carry restraints with you, any self defense idea that ends where you're holding the bad guy... NOT a good plan.

And, I know, submission holds can become breaks, etc. Break my arm, and you don't end the fight; you just take a weapon away. But that's only if you actually carry the move through; they're not always as easy to do as you think.

 

[Andrew Green]

And, I know, submission holds can become breaks, etc. Break my arm, and you don't end the fight; you just take a weapon away. But that's only if you actually carry the move through; they're not always as easy to do as you think.

Most submissions can be snapped. Just ignore the "gradual pressure" idea an explode through the joint.

It might not end a fight... but it probably will. And if not it's going to swing it in your favour as much as a punch to the face would, well more

But regardless, what you are talking about is tactics, not technique. Not all MMA fighters use submission, even ones that are good at it. Some prefer to ground & pound. Some will submit after they have a guy hurt. Others it depends on who they are fighting. I can't see many people trying to submit BJ Penn for example.

Tactics are dependant on who and where you are fighting, and are as important in being able to win. But you need to have the tools to use different strategies depending on what you need to do.

MMA, while it is sport fighting, gives a person more tools to work with then any other form of sport fighting.

 

[bujuts]

And, I know, submission holds can become breaks, etc. Break my arm, and you don't end the fight; you just take a weapon away. But that's only if you actually carry the move through; they're not always as easy to do as you think.

Most submissions can be snapped. Just ignore the "gradual pressure" idea an explode through the joint.

One thing that is largely overlooked is breaking while on the feet. The principles of levers and fulcrums apply just as they do on the ground, but its necessary to control a third dimension that is normally accomodated by mother earth.

Good discussion.

Steven Brown
UKF